80 yr old banned from YMCA pool for life for telling person with penis to get out of women's showers & not stare at girls

RunRagged wrote:

HmmmmLetsSee wrote:

Also, the REAL pervs here are those who believe that transgender females are really just male predators trying to eyeball females in the locker room. How sick, and frankly how stupid, can one be to believe that?

Yeah, mate, those who believe that female persons should have a say in who gets to see us when we are naked or half-naked are the real perverts here. Anyone who understands why elderly women, little girls and female people generally might not feel comfortable having to undress and shower with random male adults and adolescents looking on and hovering close at hand must be sick and stupid.

The reason women like me object to the presence of male adults, adolescents and tweens in women's locker rooms is not due to their gender identities, gender expression, clothing choice, hair styles, personality traits, political beliefs, sexual orientation and so on. We object to their presence in the ladies' simply because of their sex, because they are male.

Like most mums, I stopped taking my own son into the ladies locker room with me when he grew to an age where his presence was not longer appropriate. I did this for the sake of his comfort and wellbeing as much as for the safety, privacy, dignity and comfort of the other women and girls in the ladies' locker rooms. Do you really think that makes me a pervert?

It's been many years since I felt comfortable being naked in front of my son, and since he felt comfortable being naked in front of me. So even though we love one another and neither of us would sexually prey on the other, we nonetheless observe the kinds of sex boundaries that are customary in human cultures and we respect each other's bodily privacy. I long have observed and paid heed to similar sex boundaries with the other males in my life who are not my sex partners such as my brothers, my male friends, my male work colleagues. If this makes me sick and stupid in your eyes, so be it.

BTW, most women like me do not say or believe that all males who adopt or claim an opposite-sex gender identity are "just male predators trying to eyeball females in the locker room." We simply are aware that some of them are.

There are bad actors in any group. A myth being peddled today is that males who identify as girls/women are a special sacred caste far above and entirely different to the rest of the human race - that all males who "identify as" girls/women are meek, mild, bashful, delicate, dainty, pure-hearted, saintly figures with only good intentions who are incapable of any wrongdoing. On social media, including LRC, these special males are often said to be "the most vulnerable in society." Moreover, it's often claimed that these special males are not just more likely to be victims of sex crimes than perpetrators, but they are more likely to be preyed on and sexually assaulted by male sex predators, pests and pervs than girls and women are.

But the fact is, male adults and adolescents don't suddenly all become angelic innocents once they claim a trans identity. They are also not the most vulnerable people in society. And males who identify as trans are not subjected to more sexual abuse, predation, harassment, voyeurism, indecent exposure, rape, battery, stalking, bullying, menacing and inappropriate advances from males than girls and women are.

Moreover, nowadays anyone can claim to be trans - and since being trans is entirely about self-declaration, there is no way to tell the males who sincerely believe themselves to be the opposite sex from males chancers and scam artists who are pretending.

Opening up female locker rooms and other similar spaces to males who claim a trans identity opens up those spaces to all and any males - including the unfortunately sizable number of adult and adolescent males who genuinely are sex predators and pervs. As a host of well-publicized sex abuse scandals have shown time and again, male sex predators and pests will exploit any loophole and seize any opportunity they can to get access to girls and women.

hunter wheres the blow wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

Yeah, mate, those who believe that female persons should have a say in who gets to see us when we are naked or half-naked are the real perverts here. Anyone who understands why elderly women, little girls and female people generally might not feel comfortable having to undress and shower with random male adults and adolescents looking on and hovering close at hand must be sick and stupid.

The reason women like me object to the presence of male adults, adolescents and tweens in women's locker rooms is not due to their gender identities, gender expression, clothing choice, hair styles, personality traits, political beliefs, sexual orientation and so on. We object to their presence in the ladies' simply because of their sex, because they are male.

Like most mums, I stopped taking my own son into the ladies locker room with me when he grew to an age where his presence was not longer appropriate. I did this for the sake of his comfort and wellbeing as much as for the safety, privacy, dignity and comfort of the other women and girls in the ladies' locker rooms. Do you really think that makes me a pervert?

It's been many years since I felt comfortable being naked in front of my son, and since he felt comfortable being naked in front of me. So even though we love one another and neither of us would sexually prey on the other, we nonetheless observe the kinds of sex boundaries that are customary in human cultures and we respect each other's bodily privacy. I long have observed and paid heed to similar sex boundaries with the other males in my life who are not my sex partners such as my brothers, my male friends, my male work colleagues. If this makes me sick and stupid in your eyes, so be it.

BTW, most women like me do not say or believe that all males who adopt or claim an opposite-sex gender identity are "just male predators trying to eyeball females in the locker room." We simply are aware that some of them are.

There are bad actors in any group. A myth being peddled today is that males who identify as girls/women are a special sacred caste far above and entirely different to the rest of the human race - that all males who "identify as" girls/women are meek, mild, bashful, delicate, dainty, pure-hearted, saintly figures with only good intentions who are incapable of any wrongdoing. On social media, including LRC, these special males are often said to be "the most vulnerable in society." Moreover, it's often claimed that these special males are not just more likely to be victims of sex crimes than perpetrators, but they are more likely to be preyed on and sexually assaulted by male sex predators, pests and pervs than girls and women are.

But the fact is, male adults and adolescents don't suddenly all become angelic innocents once they claim a trans identity. They are also not the most vulnerable people in society. And males who identify as trans are not subjected to more sexual abuse, predation, harassment, voyeurism, indecent exposure, rape, battery, stalking, bullying, menacing and inappropriate advances from males than girls and women are.

Moreover, nowadays anyone can claim to be trans - and since being trans is entirely about self-declaration, there is no way to tell the males who sincerely believe themselves to be the opposite sex from males chancers and scam artists who are pretending.

Opening up female locker rooms and other similar spaces to males who claim a trans identity opens up those spaces to all and any males - including the unfortunately sizable number of adult and adolescent males who genuinely are sex predators and pervs. As a host of well-publicized sex abuse scandals have shown time and again, male sex predators and pests will exploit any loophole and seize any opportunity they can to get access to girls and women.

An argument that can pretty much be boiled down to “it makes people uncomfortable.” I don’t think there is any evidence of heightened danger. Women have been harmed by men in locker rooms and bathrooms for as long as locker rooms and bathrooms have existed.

I could easily rework most of what you wrote to be about racist bathroom segregation. Similar “don’t feel comfortable” arguments were commonly used there. Everyone hates when you compare two different things but it’s literally the same sentiment. “I don’t feel comfortable with them” and “I don’t feel safe with them” and “This is in violation of the social norms I grew up with.”

I can’t tell anyone how to feel. I would assume that there is a split between women who oppose and women who do not. How do you account for the women that do feel comfortable? For as many runraggeds there are out there exclaiming about the danger, there are just as many women who think you’re nuts and are not worried about it at all. More evolved or more naive? Or sex traitors? Humans adapt generationally so future women could be much more comfortable with the trannys.

HmmmmLetsSee wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

Many on the so-called "left" today only give lip service to supporting the right to privacy when it comes to abortion because abortion is something men benefit from.

Just as many on today's "left" say that "diversity and inclusion" means persons with testes and/or penises and male sports advantage must be allowed to engage and compete in women's and girls' sports if they demand it, many on the left today also believe female people in countries like the USA, Canada, UK and Ireland do not have - and should not have - any right to any single sex facilities or services where we can be assured of safety, privacy, dignity, comfort and freedom from "the male gaze" when were are in situations outside our homes where we are undressed, naked or semi-naked and thus especially vulnerable to male sexual predation, prying, perving, harassment and assault.

The standard view of the "left" today is that males who claim to "identify as" the opposite sex should have unfettered access to all spaces and services set up to provide female people with privacy, dignity, safety and comfort outside the home - be they locker rooms; communal toilets, showers and spa facilities; retail store fitting rooms; workplace dressing rooms and showers; rape crisis centers; homeless shelters; refuges for victims of domestic violence/intimate partner violence; school dorms; sleep-away camp bunk houses; hostels; health care facilities including nursing home accommodations for elderly women; gathering spaces for lesbians; workplace lactation rooms; prisons and jails; group homes for at-risk teenagers; and care facilities, long-term residences and hospital wards for girls and women whose severe physical disabilities, learning disabilities and/or mental health illnesses make them sitting ducks for abuse.

Moreover, the standard view on the "left" today is that males should be given unfettered access to spaces where females are physically most exposed and vulnerable to untoward behaviors by males just because some males want and demand it - and based solely on males saying they now "identify as" women or girls themselves.

When actual girls and women dare to object and point out all the reasons why we are not comfortable with the new policies and dogma of male intrusion and dominance posing as inclusion and diversity, then men and some women on today's supposed "left" slag us off as right-wing bigots, haters, pearl-clutchers, prudes, TERFs, old-fashioned fuddy duddies, "old bxnts," conservative nutters and other words I can't share here.

Just watch: soon enough a LRC poster on "the left" who considers himself a brogressive paragon of virtue and forward-thinking will come along and call me a bunch of misogynistic names whilst finger-wagging that any laws, policies and social customs which provide female human beings with spaces and services that allow us to have privacy, dignity and safety outside our homes are now outmoded and hateful.

There's an old saying that's never been truer in the past than it is today in 2022: the right see women and girls as private property; the left see women and girls as public property.

The disregard for the human rights of women and girls seen on the left today - and the contempt many on the left have for us that causes them to call us newfangled names dripping with misogynylike menstruators, vagina havers, pregnancy carriers,birthing bodies, milk producers and cisters - is why so many women who have been on the left all our lives are now politically homeless. And it's why so many women are mighty pissed off too.

What a load of malarkey!

Roe gets overturned and women lose the right to abortion in multiple states overnight, including blanket bans, and you somehow believe that women should actually be most angry about TERF issues? Are you insane?

I can promise you that women ARE pissed off right now, and almost NONE of them are pissed about the relatively rare transgender intersection with their personal lives. MANY of them are in a quite rage about the removal of abortion rights.

TERFs are a tiny minority of women, most of whom hold compassion and acceptance toward the trans among us. Having been a TERF will not age well years down the road.