the world championships,commonwealth games,and european championships,are all coming up.its unlikely that all the top athletes will be able to compete at all 3.theres also the asian games.
Don't forget the World Junior Championships. I'm hoping Wanyonyi is going to see sense and prioritize them and the Commonwealth Games above Oregon.
jeff tallon and his friend and the commonwealth
the 3 names that were animating an old thread about Katir.
You can choose to do that. But in sport today you can also take the position that he probably is. At the least it means there is always a question hanging over great performances (as his was), and at his age, in particular. In this era, I take the achievements of prodigies with a grain of salt.
I think there is a higher probability that you are on drugs, Armstronglivs.
Not a probability - a certainty. Anti-inflammatories. I would suggest the same likelihood of any top athlete who wants to beat his competition, who are also able to use and get away with it. There is no elite sport without it.
And you know he is "untarnished" by doping, like most other top athletes, who are also "clean" as a whistle?
Sorry, but what's the purpose of Armstronglivs on this board? To s*** on every good performance? This kid runs the kind of race we've been asking to see all season and just like clockwork he pops up to ruin the moment. What a sad, dour, creature you are and I hope you can disencumber yourself from your lonely, friendless life to be able to be happy for others and learn to celebrate instead of sowing doubt.
Your opinion is the same of every fan of every doped athlete before they were caught. Most aren't caught - which shows that no athlete can be given as clean. What fans cannot accept is that doping has become necessary to professional sport. It couldn't exist without it. It is also beyond anti-doping to eradicate - as the former head of WADA has conceded.
Top World U20 vs. their all-time pr: 1. Nijel Amos 1:41.73 PR London 2012 (1:41.89 2019) 2. Mo Aman 1:42.37 PR 2013 (1:42.53 2012) 3. Tim Kitum 1:42.53 London 2012 (1:43.65 2013) 4. Abubaker Kaki 1:42.69 2008 (1:42.23 2010) 5. Abraham Kipchirchir Rotich 1:43.13 Monaco 2012 (1:43.15 2012) 6. Leonard Kirwa Kosencha 1:43.40 20 JUL 2012 (1:43.60 2012) 7. Donavan Brazier 1:43.55 2016/1:42.34 2019 8. Robert Biwott 1:43.56 08 JUL 2015 (1:44.69 2014) 9. Japheth Kimutai 1:43.64 13 AUG 1997 (1:42.69 1999 (he had a lot of fast times) 10. Jonah Birir 1:43.67 1990 (all-time track only has a 1:45 for him and missed this time) 11. Kipyegon Bett 1:43.76 03 SEP 2016 (1:44.04 2017, later doping)
Most of these guys never ran as fast again. It's almost as if they peaked as juniors--as if maybe they were older already at the time!
You left out a rather obvious reason as to why they had peaked so young.
And you know he is "untarnished" by doping, like most other top athletes, who are also "clean" as a whistle?
This is just boring. If you keep saying every good sportsperson is doping, eventually you'll be right, just like a stopped clock.
For me, I can only enjoy sport if I give everyone the benefit of the doubt: innocent until proven guilty. That's goes for athletes of any nationality or ethnicity. I don't see how you can get any pleasure from sport if you assume everyone is doping. You need a new hobby or interest if that's the case.
It appears you have to believe athletes are clean for you to enjoy the sport. That explains why doping denial is so strong amongst fans. To see the problem for what it is would be fatal to their belief in their sport; it would also likely end professional sport.
Sorry, but what's the purpose of Armstronglivs on this board? To s*** on every good performance? This kid runs the kind of race we've been asking to see all season and just like clockwork he pops up to ruin the moment. What a sad, dour, creature you are and I hope you can disencumber yourself from your lonely, friendless life to be able to be happy for others and learn to celebrate instead of sowing doubt.
I think a good rule for this forum would be for doping accusations to only be allowed in their own specific threads, not in threads that are celebrating a particular performance.
It is less a doping accusation than a response to the OP who took the position that doping should not be part of the conversation. It can be never be removed from the conversation because we can never be sure it isn't present.
Burgin isn’t doping, look at his annual progression
14 1.53, 15 1.49, 16 1.47, 17 1.45, 18 1.44.
He may not be doping but - to your point - not all dopers will show a suspicious progression and not all suspicious progressions will be doped. But we do know that doping is prevalent at elite and professional levels, so no athlete can be proclaimed clean simply because they haven't been caught. Most dopers arent.
Burgin isn’t doping, look at his annual progression
14 1.53, 15 1.49, 16 1.47, 17 1.45, 18 1.44.
He may not be doping but - to your point - not all dopers will show a suspicious progression and not all suspicious progressions will be doped. But we do know that doping is prevalent at elite and professional levels, so no athlete can be proclaimed clean simply because they haven't been caught. Most dopers arent.
So your one and only point against Burgin is that many athletes are dopers, so he might be one of them.
Stop derailing the thread, man. We are discussing the performance, Burgin, his outlook for the season, his competition and so on. If you want to say athletes *may be* doping based on nothing but your Athletics world-view do that somewhere else. Even Coevett is doing a good job here. Doping speculation is frankly uninteresting unless you are bringing new information to the table. Which you're not. So cease and desist, please.
He may not be doping but - to your point - not all dopers will show a suspicious progression and not all suspicious progressions will be doped. But we do know that doping is prevalent at elite and professional levels, so no athlete can be proclaimed clean simply because they haven't been caught. Most dopers arent.
So your one and only point against Burgin is that many athletes are dopers, so he might be one of them.
What a loser you are.
No, that isn't my only point but I am not interested in prosecuting Burgin here. I was responding to the OP who said doping shouldn't be part of the conversation about his achievement. My response is that no elite athlete can be presumed clean. Confidential championship athlete surveys have shown the odds are about even that he will be doped.
No, that isn't my only point but I am not interested in prosecuting Burgin here. I was responding to the OP who said doping shouldn't be part of the conversation about his achievement. My response is that no elite athlete can be presumed clean. Confidential championship athlete surveys have shown the odds are about even that he will be doped.
It derails threads and it's simultaneously boring and useless. Please just leave.
Stop derailing the thread, man. We are discussing the performance, Burgin, his outlook for the season, his competition and so on. If you want to say athletes *may be* doping based on nothing but your Athletics world-view do that somewhere else. Even Coevett is doing a good job here. Doping speculation is frankly uninteresting unless you are bringing new information to the table. Which you're not. So cease and desist, please.
If you think the likelihood of any top athlete doping is merely based on my "athletics world-view" you have done nothing to seriously acquaint yourself with the issue. I have.
There is nothing - including anything I have said - that stops you and others from discussing what you want about his achievements. Yet you began the thread by stating that doping should not be part of the conversation when you cannot rule it out as a fact. It may be "uninteresting" to you but that isn't generally the criterion for whether an opinion has any validity or should even be expressed.
No, that isn't my only point but I am not interested in prosecuting Burgin here. I was responding to the OP who said doping shouldn't be part of the conversation about his achievement. My response is that no elite athlete can be presumed clean. Confidential championship athlete surveys have shown the odds are about even that he will be doped.
It derails threads and it's simultaneously boring and useless. Please just leave.
You and others have the choice to ignore opinions that don't interest you. It's opinions you don't like that are the problem for you.
Top World U20 vs. their all-time pr: 1. Nijel Amos 1:41.73 PR London 2012 (1:41.89 2019) 2. Mo Aman 1:42.37 PR 2013 (1:42.53 2012) 3. Tim Kitum 1:42.53 London 2012 (1:43.65 2013) 4. Abubaker Kaki 1:42.69 2008 (1:42.23 2010) 5. Abraham Kipchirchir Rotich 1:43.13 Monaco 2012 (1:43.15 2012) 6. Leonard Kirwa Kosencha 1:43.40 20 JUL 2012 (1:43.60 2012) 7. Donavan Brazier 1:43.55 2016/1:42.34 2019 8. Robert Biwott 1:43.56 08 JUL 2015 (1:44.69 2014) 9. Japheth Kimutai 1:43.64 13 AUG 1997 (1:42.69 1999 (he had a lot of fast times) 10. Jonah Birir 1:43.67 1990 (all-time track only has a 1:45 for him and missed this time) 11. Kipyegon Bett 1:43.76 03 SEP 2016 (1:44.04 2017, later doping)
Most of these guys never ran as fast again. It's almost as if they peaked as juniors--as if maybe they were older already at the time!
I don’t know. DJ Zoro seemed to behave like a young man in his early twenties. Not exactly the discernment of a grizzled vet.
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