Kipchoge should just run in this category during retirement until he’s like 60
He could, but he won’t.
Many posters on LR like to predict a wave of “fakes”, but there’s no evidence of it having happened. A guy with the discipline to train enough to run 2:30, is likely to be an educated, decent person. A fake’s family, friends and co-workers would know he’s not binary and he would lose their respect. He would also be fired from most professional jobs. I just don’t see someone selling their integrity for so cheap of a price.
But how do you tell a bona fide nonbinary from a fake nonbinary? Pray tell, what exactly is the definition of nonbinary? Even groups and persons in the gender vendor business can't agree.
Whichever of the myriad definitions of nonbinary you go with, why should a special category in sports be created for those who who claim to have a certain "gender identity" - or any kind of chosen "identity"?
People participate and compete in sports with our bodies, not our gender identities - and most people don't have a gender identity, besides. But even if everyone on earth did have a gender identity, why should sports categories be created based on our self-concepts? The physical realties of our bodies such as our sex and age are not changed by the ideas, feelings and fantasies that we hold in our heads about ourselves.
The runners who've cleaned up in the nonbinary category featured and shown in the NY Times piece are all young white men who look like tens of millions of other young white men. One has a fair amount of tattoos - is that what makes him nonbinary? Another has a curly hair that's about shoulder length and is pulled back in ponytail - is that what makes him nonbinary?
The whole thing is grift. A grift that is insulting to women and girls. The gender identity industry and the NY Times are trying to make it seem like the white blokes in this story have faced the same sorts of discrimination in sports and life for claiming to be nonbinary that women and girls have faced for millennia because of our sex.
These blokes and the NY Times overlook the fact that men who claim to be nonbinary were never officially barred from road races in the US by the AAU like women were until finally sports officials agreed to change the rules in the 1970s. They don't seem to be aware that there was never a time in history when nonbinary blokes were denied the chance to participate and compete in school sports the way girls and women in the US were until the late 70s, early 80s after the implementation period for Title IX was over.
The nonbinary category in running events is just a new con and swindle, like the attempt of males to use gender identity claims to horn in on female sports is.
Moreover, the nonbinary category is a con and swindle that cynically exploits the kinds of sex discrimination that females traditionally have faced in sports in order to create a new division and set of prizes which unfairly privilege and benefit athletes who are male.
To cap it off, the article says that these entitled men whom race officials have bent over backwards to cater to, and the NY Times has chosen to lionize with loads of fawning attention, "have said they felt a lack of recognition for their accomplishments and a lack of attention to their safety and comfort on race day."
100%. Also thought it was telling that the NYT compared the number of non binaries runners entered today to the number of entrants in the first major women's races.
The small turnouts are reminiscent of women’s marathoning a half-century ago. In 1970, there were about 20 known female marathoners in the world, and, in 1972, the Boston Athletic Association, which organizes the Boston Marathon, viewed recording women’s times as “very much an experiment.” Later that year, only six women ran in the New York City Marathon as its first official racers in the women’s category. The race’s first nonbinary field included 16 runners in November 2021.
Setting aside the absurdity of comparing the number of entrants from a group that makes up 50% of the population to one that makes up 0.5%- it's a blatant whitewashing that trivializes the real struggles that women faced to be allowed to compete. If there is a patriarchy in 2022 it's this- affluent men stealing from women and claiming that they do so in the name of social justice.
Without the adults in their lives pushing gender woo on them, none these kids would have heard about gender identities, transgenderism, puberty blockers, exogenous cross-sex hormones, or "gender confirmation surgeries" in the first place. None of these youngsters would now be living with mistaken impression that the whole world is full of "transphobes" who hate them and are out to get them.
How do you know that? Aren't some kids influenced by "their peers, older minors, the internet, entertainment and news media" as you described in your previous post? Are you in favor of banning TV shows like "Supergirl" and "Neighbors"? No free access to the news media and internet for minors? No unsupervised communication with older minors?
And how do you know whether they would have been better off, worse off, or whatever if they had not transitioned as youth? What if they had decided to transition as young adults, and they got ridiculed for their masculine appearance? Would they be happier now if they were accused of being sexual predators?
But how do you tell a bona fide nonbinary from a fake nonbinary? Pray tell, what exactly is the definition of nonbinary? Even groups and persons in the gender vendor business can't agree.
Whichever of the myriad definitions of nonbinary you go with, why should a special category in sports be created for those who who claim to have a certain "gender identity" - or any kind of chosen "identity"?
People participate and compete in sports with our bodies, not our gender identities - and most people don't have a gender identity, besides. But even if everyone on earth did have a gender identity, why should sports categories be created based on our self-concepts? The physical realties of our bodies such as our sex and age are not changed by the ideas, feelings and fantasies that we hold in our heads about ourselves.
The runners who've cleaned up in the nonbinary category featured and shown in the NY Times piece are all young white men who look like tens of millions of other young white men. One has a fair amount of tattoos - is that what makes him nonbinary? Another has a curly hair that's about shoulder length and is pulled back in ponytail - is that what makes him nonbinary?
The whole thing is grift. A grift that is insulting to women and girls. The gender identity industry and the NY Times are trying to make it seem like the white blokes in this story have faced the same sorts of discrimination in sports and life for claiming to be nonbinary that women and girls have faced for millennia because of our sex.
These blokes and the NY Times overlook the fact that men who claim to be nonbinary were never officially barred from road races in the US by the AAU like women were until finally sports officials agreed to change the rules in the 1970s. They don't seem to be aware that there was never a time in history when nonbinary blokes were denied the chance to participate and compete in school sports the way girls and women in the US were until the late 70s, early 80s after the implementation period for Title IX was over.
The nonbinary category in running events is just a new con and swindle, like the attempt of males to use gender identity claims to horn in on female sports is.
Moreover, the nonbinary category is a con and swindle that cynically exploits the kinds of sex discrimination that females traditionally have faced in sports in order to create a new division and set of prizes which unfairly privilege and benefit athletes who are male.
To cap it off, the article says that these entitled men whom race officials have bent over backwards to cater to, and the NY Times has chosen to lionize with loads of fawning attention, "have said they felt a lack of recognition for their accomplishments and a lack of attention to their safety and comfort on race day."
As a fellow female runner, thank you for saying this.
Whichever of the myriad definitions of nonbinary you go with, why should a special category in sports be created for those who who claim to have a certain "gender identity" - or any kind of chosen "identity"?
So are you against these swimmers who believe there should be a separate category for people like Lia Thomas?
Moving forward, trans swim meets could be organized and built into a new category of athletic competition similar to the Paralympic or Special Olympic platforms to continue to widen the umbrella of inclusion in athletics.
14 'non-binary' runners completed the marathon and took 1/3 of the prize money. Over 2800 men and women completed the marathon and took 2/3 of the prize money. There were two male people who got no prize money who were faster than the male winner of the non-binary race. If the outlier winner of the 'non-binary' race wasn't there, the winner of that race would have been slower than 500 other people running that day.
Some character named 'onwards' on this thread suggested that the race directors are adapting to the marketplace. What by trying to get all 14 people who call themselves 'non-binary' to sign up for a marathon? That's what the headline should read 'race directors have separate non-binary race. Only 14 people register.'
How can this be painted as anything but blatantly unfair?
Instead of responding to the substance of arguments Just Another Hobby Jogger tries to label and discredit those posting. For example, when a poster linked to a substack article Just Another Hobby Jogger responded by making a lame attempt to smear all writers on substack while making no reference to the substance of article posted. Just Another Hobby Jogger is not engaging with the other posters in good faith and is employing dishonest argumentation tactics. Some people here are trying to have thoughtful conversations. Not Just Another Hobby Jogger. Shame.
Instead of responding to the substance of arguments Just Another Hobby Jogger tries to label and discredit those posting. For example, when a poster linked to a substack article Just Another Hobby Jogger responded by making a lame attempt to smear all writers on substack while making no reference to the substance of article posted. Just Another Hobby Jogger is not engaging with the other posters in good faith and is employing dishonest argumentation tactics. Some people here are trying to have thoughtful conversations. Not Just Another Hobby Jogger. Shame.
So spreading a conspiracy theory is now "thoughtful conversation"? I hope you are not one of those online harassers.
Police in West Yorkshire are investigating after the UK’s largest charity supporting transgender children received a stream of abusive messages online.
Instead of responding to the substance of arguments Just Another Hobby Jogger tries to label and discredit those posting. For example, when a poster linked to a substack article Just Another Hobby Jogger responded by making a lame attempt to smear all writers on substack while making no reference to the substance of article posted. Just Another Hobby Jogger is not engaging with the other posters in good faith and is employing dishonest argumentation tactics. Some people here are trying to have thoughtful conversations. Not Just Another Hobby Jogger. Shame.
So spreading a conspiracy theory is now "thoughtful conversation"? I hope you are not one of those online harassers.
Police in West Yorkshire are investigating after the UK’s largest charity supporting transgender children received a stream of abusive messages online.
Ah yes a full thread of evidence that children are being groomed into being trans is labeled a “conspiracy theory.” No discussion of the evidence at hand. Folks, the left is not sending their best!
Instead of responding to the substance of arguments Just Another Hobby Jogger tries to label and discredit those posting. For example, when a poster linked to a substack article Just Another Hobby Jogger responded by making a lame attempt to smear all writers on substack while making no reference to the substance of article posted. Just Another Hobby Jogger is not engaging with the other posters in good faith and is employing dishonest argumentation tactics. Some people here are trying to have thoughtful conversations. Not Just Another Hobby Jogger. Shame.
So spreading a conspiracy theory is now "thoughtful conversation"? I hope you are not one of those online harassers.
Police in West Yorkshire are investigating after the UK’s largest charity supporting transgender children received a stream of abusive messages online.
LOL, there's been a lot of water over the dam since that article came out in 2017. In the 5 years since, it's been found that the West Yorkshire police have been in cahoots with Mermaids in many questionable ways. West Yorks police threw holiday parties with and for Mermaids; got "training" from Mermaids in "diversity, inclusion" and new etiquette around pronouns; gave Mermaids advice on how to to file reports of "non-crime hate crimes" against people Mermaids accused of "transphobia;" and served as the personal goon squad for Susie Green, Mermaids staff and volunteers.
Also, you forgot to include any info of how the allegations made in 2017 by Susie Green of Mermaids turned out. She dropped her complaints in March 2019:
But since you brought up the issue of how Mermaids (and other trans campaign orgs) have a penchant for reporting people to the police for saying stuff they consider "transphobic," I think it's important to point out that Susie Green dropped the complaints alleging criminal wrongdoing that she made with the West Yorks police against someone who said words on Twitter that hurt her feelings immediately after Mermaids was made a laughingstock over other bogus complaints made with the West Yorks police about things said on Twitter that another "mom of a trans child" at Mermaids found offensive.
In 2019, Mermaids was infamously behind the first case in the UK where a person was criminally prosecuted by the CPS for "transphobic" tweets. The complaints that led to the prosecution were filed with the West Yorks police against Miranda Yardley, a gay male who identifies as trans (that's how he describes himself), by a heterosexual "cis woman" working for/with Mermaids who herself does not identify as trans, but has a kid who does (or did at the time):
"Helen Islan, who is married with children and works with the trans advocacy group Mermaids, which campaigns for children who want to change gender.
"The hearing at Basildon Magistrates’ Court in Essex last Friday brought into sharp focus the complex and often rancorous divisions within the transgender community.
"On one side was Yardley, an accountant, who describes himself as a transsexual and identifies as a man, even though he underwent gender reassignment to become a woman ten years ago.
"Despite his own experience, his contention is that individuals cannot change sex – and this has drawn fierce criticism on social media.
"Giving evidence via video link was his accuser, Helen Islan, who is married with children and works with the trans advocacy group Mermaids, which campaigns for children who want to change gender.
"The court heard that one of her teenage children is transgender. The spat began with a discussion – joined by other Twitter users – about self-identification, which allows people to be recognised as transgender simply by declaring themselves male or female.
"Concerns were also expressed about how the powerful trans lobby was allegedly eroding women’s rights by allowing transgender women, born male, into female-only spaces. This, it was argued, was a threat to women.
"...using a pseudonym, Ms Islan accused her opponents of ‘spreading hysteria’ and it was at this point the exchanges grew increasingly aggressive.
"In response, she was unmasked by Yardley who tweeted a picture and a link to her real identity. The tweet also referenced her transgender child, which Ms Islan argued effectively ‘outed’ him.
"She said it led to them both being harassed adding that the post made her feel ‘stressed and sick’.
"Initially, Ms Islan’s complaint was dealt with by West Yorkshire Police before being passed to colleagues in Essex, who decided it was a hate crime.
"But when the case reached court the defence referred to pages of social media posts in which Ms Islan herself was regularly tweeting about her trans child, about him taking blockers, that he had ‘come out’ at school.
"The court heard that a simple search on Google brought up Ms Islan’s personal details, including a family photograph that she had herself posted.
"At one point during the hearing, Judge Woollard said: ‘Where is the evidence [of harassment] taking into account the need for free speech? You have to show a course of conduct and at the moment we have one tweet.
"Where is the evidence for Miranda Yardley outing Ms Islan’s son?’ Later he threw out the case and awarded costs to the defendant."
The people you are defending are intolerant, homophobic sexists whose entire aim in life is making sure that confused, often autistic, quirky children with mental health problems such as depression, anxiety and OCD get messed up further by being subjected to cruel, inhumane punishments for not meeting their parents' rigid, unreasonable expectations for what little boys and girls are supposed to be like. These poor kids are being told their bodies are wrong, which is a sick thing to tell kids in the first place. Worse, to fix their "wrong" bodies, these kids are being "treated" with experimental, radical medical interventions that will stunt the kids' development in a wide variety of ways, leave them sterile and deny them their basic human right to mature sexually so that they in adolescence and adulthood they can experience normal libido, sexual attraction, sexual arousal, sexual pleasure, and climax/orgasm - all just because as little kids they liked toys and clothes their sexist parents found inappropriate for their sex, they also liked to play make-believe where they pretended to be the opposite sex like lots of children do and always have done.
Moreover, these poor kids told they were "born in the wrong body" are being subjected to this fashionable new form of child abuse even though it's been consistently documented that if given love and support whilst being left to develop naturally, the overwhelming majority of kids (at least 8 out of 10) with childhood "gender dysphoria" will outgrow it during adolescence - and if allowed to mature and go through adolescence without being chemically castrated, the majority would grow up to be gay men, lesbian women or bisexuals who'd become well-adjusted adults at home in their bodies and comfortable with their sexuality and personality quirks.
In the midst of the oldest track meet in the United States, the paper of record's coverage of running is about... a man who won $10,000 in a marathon with a time just barely faster than the winner of the women's race. Leaving aside the issue of whether non-binary is a legitimate category (it's not). How does it make any sense that gender identity factors into athletic performance. Can anyone explain to me why there should be a separate category for slower men who identify as they/thems to compete in? With transwomen I understand that it's a more complex issue because there are hormonal treatments (read: castration) that lend credence to the argument that they should compete with the women (they shouldn't). But in this case I don't see any science based argument for why this category is necessary other than for providing clout chasing men with an opportunity to leverage their newfound status as a protected class to win money that should otherwise be going to the actual winners of the men/women's races.
What are you complaining about? Isn’t a separate category what you always maintained was fairer because it didn’t interfere with and take prize money away from your “purebred” women? Well, now you have it. Men, women, and non-binary. What’s your point? Should the non-binary not compete at all?
Non-binary isn't a biological sex. It's not like a person being born intersex. This is just male and female individuals identifying as being gender neutral.
I don't see what that has to do with sport and I'm not sure why prize money is being given to the 'winners'.
Most mass participation races for the general public, such as the people in the article, are not split into male and female categories anyway. It's just one big race.
At the elite level there is no need for a non-binary category. The sport is split into sex categories because of the physiological advantages males have over females. Non-binary doesn't count.
This is absolutely absurd. One's gender identity has no bearing on one's physical performance. These race directors are fools. If there's more prize money to go around, give it to the women who were denied entry for years.
This is absolutely absurd. One's gender identity has no bearing on one's physical performance. These race directors are fools. If there's more prize money to go around, give it to the women who were denied entry for years.
Yes, it's absolutely absurd. Also, nonbinary racing is old hat. Nonbinary races were done to death ages ago:
A three-legged race is a running event involving pairs of participants running with the left leg of one runner strapped to the right leg of another runner. The objective is for the partners to beat the other contestant pairs...
A three-legged race is a running event involving pairs of participants running with the left leg of one runner strapped to the right leg of another runner. The objective is for the partners to beat the other contestant pairs...
The sack race or potato sack race is a competitive game in which participants place both of their legs inside a sack or pillow case that reaches their waist or neck and hop forward from a starting point toward a finish line....
Isn't this the Times running newsletter/blog? Not running news. So, as a feature piece, you can't really criticize it as "news." Anyway, more power to non-binary people and runners. Come out, come out, wherever you are.
Isn't this the Times running newsletter/blog? Not running news. So, as a feature piece, you can't really criticize it as "news." Anyway, more power to non-binary people and runners. Come out, come out, wherever you are.
It's a news story that was originally published in the digital version of the NY Times on the internet/worldwide web on April 30, 2022, under the heading "Sports" along with all the paper's other sports coverage.
A note under the piece on NY Times dot com says it was republished in the Sports section of the May 2 New York print edition as well.
So it's an article meant for the general audience of NY Times readers globally. Not a niche item provided only to the presumably relatively small number of people who receive and read "the Times running newsletter/blog" - and not solely for readers in the NYC metro area interested in local sports coverage, either.
The people you are defending are intolerant, homophobic sexists whose entire aim in life is making sure that confused, often autistic, quirky children with mental health problems such as depression, anxiety and OCD get messed up further by being subjected to cruel, inhumane punishments for not meeting their parents' rigid, unreasonable expectations for what little boys and girls are supposed to be like. These poor kids are being told their bodies are wrong, which is a sick thing to tell kids in the first place. Worse, to fix their "wrong" bodies, these kids are being "treated" with experimental, radical medical interventions that will stunt the kids' development in a wide variety of ways, leave them sterile and deny them their basic human right to mature sexually so that they in adolescence and adulthood they can experience normal libido, sexual attraction, sexual arousal, sexual pleasure, and climax/orgasm - all just because as little kids they liked toys and clothes their sexist parents found inappropriate for their sex, they also liked to play make-believe where they pretended to be the opposite sex like lots of children do and always have done.
And the evidence for this claim is .... some anonymous postings on the Internet?
Eric Vilain, Chief of Medical Genetics at UCLA, asks in regards to early social/medical transition: ""I'm actually wondering what are we trying to accomplish...
Puberty blockers are powerful medication given to children with gender dysphoria. They 'pause' puberty to give children and their parents more time. But the...
Puberty blockers are powerful medication given to children with gender dysphoria. They 'pause' puberty to give children and their parents more time. But the...
