I'm middle class and I'm terrified of the antiwork movement

Red team wrote:

Lcalzadaj wrote:

Red team, I can’t imagine what you’ve seen or where you’ve been but you’re really missing out. I worked my butt off starting in the mid 1960s until 4 years ago when I retired in good financial standing. Those “attainable” items you mention were not easier to attain “in the f*cking 70s” like you might think. Through those 55 years we had some rough patches but in the long run I can’t say that it became any harder to attain those items for me or those around me. And in the last 20 or so years it included a large number of the day’s young with whom I had the pleasure of working. Oh and today, the house they attain today is easily twice the size we had to start with and the cars they have are much nicer. The middle class including myself is doing and can do very well....if they choose to do so. Oh I did “choose” to become one of those investors but unfortunately didn’t quite make it as one of those wealthy one.

Red Team I’m sure for every doom and gloom story you have I could give you 4 or 5 positives. Come on down to Houston, Austin, San Antonio, or Dallas. Long term things have been good for at least my 60 years down here. Not perfect but good.

There is a lot of information available online about rent, house, car, college, utility, food, and water prices over time in it's relation to inflation as well as it's relation to wages. And vice versa on all of that.

It is statistically harder for current 20-40s to afford anything then you did.

Statistically, accounting for inflation, they are paid less. They were required to get degrees that weren't required in your time. They paid more for college. Houses cost more. Rent costs more. Health insurance costs more AND covers less. Cars cost more. Food costs more. Utilities cost more

The most expensive items in someone's life --a house and college--are 3-4x more expensive when adjusted for inflation.

This is all very obvious to people who are not willfully ignorant. You boomers make up myths about gender studies degrees and avocado toast to feel ok about stagnating wages and skyrocketing cost of living. Quality of life is going down in America. It is getting materially worse to live here. That is the reality we grapple with while you fat boomers ride your Harley Davidsons around the all-white gated suburbs of Dallas Texas.

Oh Please wrote:

The real issue is our pseudo-capitalist system. The stock market is what enables the greed. If a company has great profits in 2021, it has to beat that in 2022. Our entire "economy" suggests growth should continue forever. So everything is tilted against the workers. Do more, make less, buy more. How else can you prop up the economy and its gains? CONSUME! Social media / influencers...why do they exist? To convince people to CONSUME. Spend your money. Put it on that 24.99% APR credit card.

If rent is $2500 on that one bedroom apartment, why not increase it to $2550 next year since the employee probably got a 3% raise, I can grab 2% of that (simplification).

Well the chicken will come home to roost eventually. I lurk in that antiwork subreddit because I think it's important to see other viewpoints. No doubt there are a lot of lazy people there, but there are some kernels of truth as well.

And please, no one wants to hear how you "worked so hard" to get where you are at, when it has been demonstrated time and again that most people benefit from their place in society at birth and the environment in which they are raised, which you have no control over. There is a startling difference in public education depending on the neighborhood you live in. So you see, some start off worse right from the beginning. Many that are perhaps smarter and harder working than you never get the same opportunities.

food for thought! wrote:

Maybe something triggered this "anti-work" movement, like, i don't know, working 40+ hours a week and still not being able to afford the most basic necessities?? The minimum wage is pathetic - and some states are way worse than others. Some states are still in the $7 range, and instead of using the "they should find another job" rebuttal, ask yourself why you think some people deserve that little...because someone has to work that job. Maybe there'd be more of a motive to work if people were paid adequately and could have some sort of work/life balance that doesn't make them want to downward spiral.

And miss me with the "where will we get the money???" As if asking for $15/hr instead of $8/hr will put any dent in that military budget we never have a problem funding....or the billionaires that watch their profits SOAR as we celebrate a $2 wage increase once every 10 years.

Resdes wrote:

food for thought! wrote:

Maybe something triggered this "anti-work" movement, like, i don't know, working 40+ hours a week and still not being able to afford the most basic necessities?? The minimum wage is pathetic - and some states are way worse than others. Some states are still in the $7 range, and instead of using the "they should find another job" rebuttal, ask yourself why you think some people deserve that little...because someone has to work that job. Maybe there'd be more of a motive to work if people were paid adequately and could have some sort of work/life balance that doesn't make them want to downward spiral.

And miss me with the "where will we get the money???" As if asking for $15/hr instead of $8/hr will put any dent in that military budget we never have a problem funding....or the billionaires that watch their profits SOAR as we celebrate a $2 wage increase once every 10 years.

No one makes minimum wage. The data is available, it's about 0.4% of workers.

No Nothing wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Define the "anti-work movement." We have an unemployment rate of 3.6% right now. That is BELOW what is commonly considered full employment of 5%. I'm actually surprised that 96.4% of people looking for work can actually get hired.

If you have friends who are physically and mentally able to get a job and they don't, then HOW are they doing that? Only options I see:

1) Independently wealthy. If so, then more power to them. They can do with that wealth what they want.

2) Freeloaders. Someone is enabling them. Bad enablers, bad!

3) Homeless. Well, that's not good and throws up the possibility that they are not mentally able to get a job.

4) Criminals. There have been cases where people have lived in the woods or in a tent or whatever and stole what they needed for years.

Contrary to popular current opinion, people don't just decide to not work just because they don't want to. They either have funds you don't know about or they are freeloaders or homeless or criminals.

5) Taking care of senior family members who require full time care as Covid has decimated Canada's Long Term Care facilities.

blamb61 wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Define the "anti-work movement." We have an unemployment rate of 3.6% right now. That is BELOW what is commonly considered full employment of 5%. I'm actually surprised that 96.4% of people looking for work can actually get hired.

If you have friends who are physically and mentally able to get a job and they don't, then HOW are they doing that? Only options I see:

1) Independently wealthy. If so, then more power to them. They can do with that wealth what they want.

2) Freeloaders. Someone is enabling them. Bad enablers, bad!

3) Homeless. Well, that's not good and throws up the possibility that they are not mentally able to get a job.

4) Criminals. There have been cases where people have lived in the woods or in a tent or whatever and stole what they needed for years.

Contrary to popular current opinion, people don't just decide to not work just because they don't want to. They either have funds you don't know about or they are freeloaders or homeless or criminals.

Dont work because they don't want to yet are criminals and freeloaders! Really? Employment numbers only count those seeking work and therefore are not accurate.

blamb61 wrote:

Red team wrote:

There is a lot of information available online about rent, house, car, college, utility, food, and water prices over time in it's relation to inflation as well as it's relation to wages. And vice versa on all of that.

It is statistically harder for current 20-40s to afford anything then you did.

Statistically, accounting for inflation, they are paid less. They were required to get degrees that weren't required in your time. They paid more for college. Houses cost more. Rent costs more. Health insurance costs more AND covers less. Cars cost more. Food costs more. Utilities cost more

The most expensive items in someone's life --a house and college--are 3-4x more expensive when adjusted for inflation.

This is all very obvious to people who are not willfully ignorant. You boomers make up myths about gender studies degrees and avocado toast to feel ok about stagnating wages and skyrocketing cost of living. Quality of life is going down in America. It is getting materially worse to live here. That is the reality we grapple with while you fat boomers ride your Harley Davidsons around the all-white gated suburbs of Dallas Texas.

It is harder today adjusted for inflation. We should look at the sources of that and work on that. Having said that, if it is harder, maybe we work a little harder (limits on that I know) instead of throwing in the towel or live a simpler less expensive life. In the end you are responsible to support yourself.

blamb61 wrote:

Oh Please wrote:

The real issue is our pseudo-capitalist system. The stock market is what enables the greed. If a company has great profits in 2021, it has to beat that in 2022. Our entire "economy" suggests growth should continue forever. So everything is tilted against the workers. Do more, make less, buy more. How else can you prop up the economy and its gains? CONSUME! Social media / influencers...why do they exist? To convince people to CONSUME. Spend your money. Put it on that 24.99% APR credit card.

If rent is $2500 on that one bedroom apartment, why not increase it to $2550 next year since the employee probably got a 3% raise, I can grab 2% of that (simplification).

Well the chicken will come home to roost eventually. I lurk in that antiwork subreddit because I think it's important to see other viewpoints. No doubt there are a lot of lazy people there, but there are some kernels of truth as well.

And please, no one wants to hear how you "worked so hard" to get where you are at, when it has been demonstrated time and again that most people benefit from their place in society at birth and the environment in which they are raised, which you have no control over. There is a startling difference in public education depending on the neighborhood you live in. So you see, some start off worse right from the beginning. Many that are perhaps smarter and harder working than you never get the same opportunities.

The only thing limiting folks is what they have in their head. I paid my way through college, etc. Stop playing a victim and get to work and get some credentials! Most millionaires are self made and do not inherit their wealth. You have that wrong.

Red team wrote:

jamb innn wrote:

What entitles the current generation to the same/equivalent purchasing power as their predecessors?

Ever stop to think that their services/labor just aren't worth as much?

I think the key word is entitlement. Meer existence on earth doesn't entitle you to anything. You are one of 7B+ people here. You are not unique.

If you can name one thing that millenials are objectively worse at (ex. They are worse at selling cars so car dealerships can't pay them the equivalent salary they would have paid in 19__) I would love to hear it. Productivity is up in all industries. Each worker makes more relative money for their company.

It is not an issue of entitlement. It is recognizing the math leads to human suffering and decreasing quality of life. XX% of jobs used to cover the cost of living. Every year, that % decreases. The world gets worse for people.

I think that's a bad thing. You think it's fine because no fulltime worker is legally entitled to a dignified existence on par with their predecessors, even in the wealthiest country on earth, even when the wealth per capita increases. So I think you're a puritanical freak and I don't care what your opinion is.