They aren't good enough in the 1500/5000 to be a factor on the team so you choose either Steeple or 10000.
Really?
Why the steeplechase is the most badass event in trackand field....
Historically steeplechasers match up well with their flat competitors. But it's a one way street: steeplechasers can run the flat events, however flat runners rarely have success in the steeplechase. There will be pain---lotsa pain. If you can’t run the steeplechase, you run the 1500.
Steeplechase WR holder and 1960 Olympic Champion Zdzislaw Kryszkowiak ranked top 10 in the world in the both the 5000 (6,2,3) and 10000m (5,1,7) in addition to his land and sea specialty (3, 3, 8, 1, 1, 9)
Bob Schul started off as a steeplechaser. Won Tokyo gold in 1964 in the 5000m. Good thing he switched events. He would have been no match for Gaston Roulants, who, incidentally, was also the best cross country runner in the world.
Anders Garderud started off as an average 1500m guy. Switched to the steeplechase and had great success. Funny thing happened to him...by running with the men among men in the toughest event of them all, he soon became one of the best 1500/5000m men in the world -- faster than your beloved Pre.
Rod Dixon, Dave Bedford and Steve Jones all dipped their toes in the forbidden waters. Out of fear from the horrors they had seen, they thought better of it, and turned tail back to the safety of the terra firma. We know what Jonesy did in the marathon. He was never going to strike terror in the hearts of steeplechasers, but he single-handedly changed the way the marathon would be run forever.
The marathon has a wall. The steeplechase has thirty-five of them.
Bayi started off as a steepler, couldn't hack it, switched to the easy events and set two WRs (1500, mile). Only when he became a man did he go back to the steeple, but still was no match for Malinowski.
At the 1974 Commonwealth Games Ben Jipcho won the steeplechase (8:20), 5000m (13:14), and was 3rd in that epic 1500 (3:33), a triple that is unheard of even today with super shoes.
Jurgan Straub was a struggling steeplechaser, then set his sights on the low-hanging fruit in the 1500, for Olympic silver in 1980. He wiped the snarky smirk right off the faces of those guys.
Lopes was a steeplechaser, then went for the easy pickings in the 10k and marathon. Like the OG in 1984.
Greg Meyer tried, and tried, and tried in the steeplechase. SPLAT! When he finally gave up he won the Boston Marathon.
I ain't lying!
Bruce Bickford, the American Junior recordholder in the steeplechase, found the event too tough, so he went after some more of the low-hanging fruit in the 10k, and became the #1 ranked 10k runner in the world in 1985.
Georgetown steeplechaser John Gregorek, the current American Junior recordholder, ran a 3:51 mile just for kicks. Another 3:51 miler AJ Acosta tried to run the steeplechase "just for kicks", but it was a painful nightmare that he wishes he could forget.
In 1987 steeplechaser Francesco Panetta won his event at the World Champs, after taking silver in one of those weak events -- the 10,000m
In 1990 Mose Kiptanui was African 1500m champion and also won the World Junior 1500m championships. He ran primarily the steeplechase until 1995 when he became the first man under 8:00. When he heard about this guy Gebrselassie breaking the WR in the 5000m with his 12:56, he said to himself "If I can run the steeplechase, then I can beat Shorty McSellassie" and promptly went out and lowered Shorty's record to 12:55. Oh, in 2008 he started coaching some guy who likes to dance after he wins his races. hmmmmm...
World record-holder Shaheen (Stephen Cherono) is the 11th fastest 5k runner of all-time with his 12:48, and he did it while beating some schlep named El Garage, El Garbage, or El Kabong, who ran a lifetime PR 12:50. Something like that anyway. ;-)
Check it out 14:50 into the video. If you think El Kabong has a kick, watch what happens when Shaheen takes him to school...and wipes the snarky grin off his face.
The best steeplechasers in the world are very tiny men who adapt well to the herky-jerky improvisational nature of the event. Those athletes are ones who tend not to be "rhythm runners." Rhythm runners tend to do very poor in the steeplechase because of the event's unpredictability.
The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions and adjustments you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. Mistakes in flat events are akin toguitar playing -- maybe get a blister on your little finger, maybe get a blister on your thumb...
In the flat events you don't have to think about what's up ahead, or beside you ... or behind. You don't have to think about ... nothin'. Dumb people run the flat events, It's geniuses like Norman Einstein who can run the steeplechase!
You don't get to choose the steeplechase. It chooses you. There is no other event in track and field like it. It's the honey badger of running events. It doesn't give a sh!t where you've been, or what you've done, it WILL humble you. Honey badger don't give a sh!t. The supposed “weak” event allows everyone to run it. There is no secret handshake and no monthly dues. Everyone is invited.
"Come with uncle and hear all proper. Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones -- you are invited."
Funny thing is, few dare to answer the clarion call. But if you do, here's some advice for you: hold onto your balls, you're going for a ride.
"Come and get one in the yarbles, if you have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou!"
The steeplechase has made geldings out of many a brave men.
there have been many great steeplers, but in general, one who can do as well or better in the 1500 or 5000 will stay with those events.
In my neck of the woods, guys will often go to the steeplechase if they feel there is an opportunity to make it to states, which might not be there in the 1600/3200. Or they might be the third best distance runner on a really stacked team, and they don't want to compete with their teammates.
SOMETIMES, a top level flat runner will find the steeple at a younger age, and fall in love with it and stick with it, even though they are now good enough to dominate the flat events.
Been coaching 20 years in D3. When I transition runners to the steeple, it’s mostly due to them being awkward or just weird. You know, the guys who everyone kind of talks bad about when they aren’t around. I can keep them all separate from the important event groups (1500/5000) without having to cut them outright. When other coaches and I watch the steeple at conference we always swap stories about these social misfits to share, so I know this is common outside of my team as well.
There’s a reason you’re D3. I believe Evan Jager trashes your entire thesis. As does every high performing steepler.
there have been many great steeplers, but in general, one who can do as well or better in the 1500 or 5000 will stay with those events.
In my neck of the woods, guys will often go to the steeplechase if they feel there is an opportunity to make it to states, which might not be there in the 1600/3200. Or they might be the third best distance runner on a really stacked team, and they don't want to compete with their teammates.
SOMETIMES, a top level flat runner will find the steeple at a younger age, and fall in love with it and stick with it, even though they are now good enough to dominate the flat events.
another thing, in my area, we have a steeplechase only meet for our league where as many people who want can enter. We always ask every distance runner if they want to go. The top 5 milers I have coached in 10 years have all wanted to do it. One of them was terrible at it. You would have thought he was a 5:30 miler/ 20 minute cross runner if it was the only race you'd ever seen him run. The others took to it pretty well.
2 of them have pursued it as an opportunity to get to states, and one more probably will this year.
The best runner I have ever had could have gone to states in any event from 800 to 3200. He viewed it as an opportunity for another school record. Definitely wasn't his favorite.
Lol, I know exactly where this is going but I quite enjoy when you get involved in training debates so I'll bite.
The training is interesting because of the variety, the drills, running reps over hurdles and working on technique.
Where, exactly, is this going?
In my very long history of reading and posting on this site and reading your posts on steepling, I know that was bait question so he would bite and say technique and hurdling which is something you disagree with when it comes to steeple training and have done the same in many steeple threads. Hence why I laid forth the questions in that context which you edited out.
I'm not looking for an argument and am really asking and interested in your opinion on those questions I asked, that is all.
They aren't good enough in the 1500/5000 to be a factor on the team so you choose either Steeple or 10000.
Really?
Why the steeplechase is the most badass event in trackand field....
Historically steeplechasers match up well with their flat competitors. But it's a one way street: steeplechasers can run the flat events, however flat runners rarely have success in the steeplechase. There will be pain---lotsa pain. If you can’t run the steeplechase, you run the 1500.
Steeplechase WR holder and 1960 Olympic Champion Zdzislaw Kryszkowiak ranked top 10 in the world in the both the 5000 (6,2,3) and 10000m (5,1,7) in addition to his land and sea specialty (3, 3, 8, 1, 1, 9)
Bob Schul started off as a steeplechaser. Won Tokyo gold in 1964 in the 5000m. Good thing he switched events. He would have been no match for Gaston Roulants, who, incidentally, was also the best cross country runner in the world.
Anders Garderud started off as an average 1500m guy. Switched to the steeplechase and had great success. Funny thing happened to him...by running with the men among men in the toughest event of them all, he soon became one of the best 1500/5000m men in the world -- faster than your beloved Pre.
Rod Dixon, Dave Bedford and Steve Jones all dipped their toes in the forbidden waters. Out of fear from the horrors they had seen, they thought better of it, and turned tail back to the safety of the terra firma. We know what Jonesy did in the marathon. He was never going to strike terror in the hearts of steeplechasers, but he single-handedly changed the way the marathon would be run forever.
The marathon has a wall. The steeplechase has thirty-five of them.
Bayi started off as a steepler, couldn't hack it, switched to the easy events and set two WRs (1500, mile). Only when he became a man did he go back to the steeple, but still was no match for Malinowski.
At the 1974 Commonwealth Games Ben Jipcho won the steeplechase (8:20), 5000m (13:14), and was 3rd in that epic 1500 (3:33), a triple that is unheard of even today with super shoes.
Jurgan Straub was a struggling steeplechaser, then set his sights on the low-hanging fruit in the 1500, for Olympic silver in 1980. He wiped the snarky smirk right off the faces of those guys.
Lopes was a steeplechaser, then went for the easy pickings in the 10k and marathon. Like the OG in 1984.
Greg Meyer tried, and tried, and tried in the steeplechase. SPLAT! When he finally gave up he won the Boston Marathon.
I ain't lying!
Bruce Bickford, the American Junior recordholder in the steeplechase, found the event too tough, so he went after some more of the low-hanging fruit in the 10k, and became the #1 ranked 10k runner in the world in 1985.
Georgetown steeplechaser John Gregorek, the current American Junior recordholder, ran a 3:51 mile just for kicks. Another 3:51 miler AJ Acosta tried to run the steeplechase "just for kicks", but it was a painful nightmare that he wishes he could forget.
In 1987 steeplechaser Francesco Panetta won his event at the World Champs, after taking silver in one of those weak events -- the 10,000m
In 1990 Mose Kiptanui was African 1500m champion and also won the World Junior 1500m championships. He ran primarily the steeplechase until 1995 when he became the first man under 8:00. When he heard about this guy Gebrselassie breaking the WR in the 5000m with his 12:56, he said to himself "If I can run the steeplechase, then I can beat Shorty McSellassie" and promptly went out and lowered Shorty's record to 12:55. Oh, in 2008 he started coaching some guy who likes to dance after he wins his races. hmmmmm...
World record-holder Shaheen (Stephen Cherono) is the 11th fastest 5k runner of all-time with his 12:48, and he did it while beating some schlep named El Garage, El Garbage, or El Kabong, who ran a lifetime PR 12:50. Something like that anyway. ;-)
Check it out 14:50 into the video. If you think El Kabong has a kick, watch what happens when Shaheen takes him to school...and wipes the snarky grin off his face.
The best steeplechasers in the world are very tiny men who adapt well to the herky-jerky improvisational nature of the event. Those athletes are ones who tend not to be "rhythm runners." Rhythm runners tend to do very poor in the steeplechase because of the event's unpredictability.
The steeplechase is not a hurdle event, it is in, and of, its own. The hurdle events are distant cousins to the steeplechase. They are well-rehearsed soliloquies: step-step-step-step-jump - as opposed to the steeplechase, which is an acrobatic improv. Pack dynamics are much different in the steeplechase than in any other event; this is especially evident in the approach to the barriers where you must be completely focused and spatially aware of your physical relationship to both the rapidly approaching barriers, and to the competitors around you, all the while mindful of the split second decisions and adjustments you'll need to make to come through cleanly. Mistakes in the steeplechase are brutal and bloody. Mistakes in flat events are akin toguitar playing -- maybe get a blister on your little finger, maybe get a blister on your thumb...
In the flat events you don't have to think about what's up ahead, or beside you ... or behind. You don't have to think about ... nothin'. Dumb people run the flat events, It's geniuses like Norman Einstein who can run the steeplechase!
You don't get to choose the steeplechase. It chooses you. There is no other event in track and field like it. It's the honey badger of running events. It doesn't give a sh!t where you've been, or what you've done, it WILL humble you. Honey badger don't give a sh!t. The supposed “weak” event allows everyone to run it. There is no secret handshake and no monthly dues. Everyone is invited.
"Come with uncle and hear all proper. Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones -- you are invited."
Funny thing is, few dare to answer the clarion call. But if you do, here's some advice for you: hold onto your balls, you're going for a ride.
"Come and get one in the yarbles, if you have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou!"
The steeplechase has made geldings out of many a brave men.
For the record, I’d like to say your post is a masterpiece. Thank you for this magnificent history lesson.
No one is putting someone who is awfu;l into the steeple. I think the OP is paranoid.
You are putting someone into the steeple because they have showed either a) a sense of fearleness or b) athleticism that you think will translate well into the event.
Yes, it's an event way easier to score in. So I was always looking for people who might be good at it.
I put my top recruit into the steeple in year #1 at Cornell as I thought he'd love it.
Forgive me. I’m just an overly concerned and overly involved father. Yes, I guess that’s a type of paranoia. Your time will come soon enough!
From one overly involved dad to another, I wouldn't read too much into it. If she enjoys it, and is improving, then honestly, thats all that matters. And she probably has a better chance of qualifying for the all regional teams or nationals in the steeple than the 5 or 10k anyways. Plus it gives you an entirely new event to study and overly obsess about:-)
Yes to this. Sure, there is less competition in the steeple so coaches are actively looking for athletes who might have steeple potential. It’s such a different event though - they are generally not just looking for slightly slower runners - they are looking for athletic types who can handle the stopping and starting.
It’s a badass event - I’d take it as a compliment. Oh and if your kid has a great work ethic, this is an event which rewards it - in addition to all the running, you should be spending hours practicing hurdling form etc.
there have been many great steeplers, but in general, one who can do as well or better in the 1500 or 5000 will stay with those events.
In my neck of the woods, guys will often go to the steeplechase if they feel there is an opportunity to make it to states, which might not be there in the 1600/3200. Or they might be the third best distance runner on a really stacked team, and they don't want to compete with their teammates.
SOMETIMES, a top level flat runner will find the steeple at a younger age, and fall in love with it and stick with it, even though they are now good enough to dominate the flat events.
another thing, in my area, we have a steeplechase only meet for our league where as many people who want can enter. We always ask every distance runner if they want to go. The top 5 milers I have coached in 10 years have all wanted to do it. One of them was terrible at it. You would have thought he was a 5:30 miler/ 20 minute cross runner if it was the only race you'd ever seen him run. The others took to it pretty well.
2 of them have pursued it as an opportunity to get to states, and one more probably will this year.
The best runner I have ever had could have gone to states in any event from 800 to 3200. He viewed it as an opportunity for another school record. Definitely wasn't his favorite.
No one is putting someone who is awfu;l into the steeple. I think the OP is paranoid.
You are putting someone into the steeple because they have showed either a) a sense of fearleness or b) athleticism that you think will translate well into the event.
Yes, it's an event way easier to score in. So I was always looking for people who might be good at it.
I put my top recruit into the steeple in year #1 at Cornell as I thought he'd love it.
Forgive me. I’m just an overly concerned and overly involved father. Yes, I guess that’s a type of paranoia. Your time will come soon enough!
There are two types of people who run steeple: those who can be good at it, and those who aren't good at any other distance events. If the coach thinks your kid has potential in the steeple, it's beneficial to get started during freshmen year. Are they doing any actual hurdling practice? Or did the coach basically throw your kid to the wolves before the first race?
One other point, and sorry if I you answered earlier- if we are talking about women, then it's more likely that this move was done for conference points because women's steeple is usually noticeably weaker than the other distance events.
No one is putting someone who is awfu;l into the steeple. I think the OP is paranoid.
You are putting someone into the steeple because they have showed either a) a sense of fearleness or b) athleticism that you think will translate well into the event.
Yes, it's an event way easier to score in. So I was always looking for people who might be good at it.
I put my top recruit into the steeple in year #1 at Cornell as I thought he'd love it.
Forgive me. I’m just an overly concerned and overly involved father. Yes, I guess that’s a type of paranoia. Your time will come soon enough!
Thankfully your daughter is at a solid program. Kirk and Emma are good people and the team has seen great success.
From one overly involved dad to another, I wouldn't read too much into it. If she enjoys it, and is improving, then honestly, thats all that matters. And she probably has a better chance of qualifying for the all regional teams or nationals in the steeple than the 5 or 10k anyways. Plus it gives you an entirely new event to study and overly obsess about:-)
In college (D2) I was probably the best athlete on the team. In fact, I ran 110 and 300 hurdles in high school. Coach suggested the steeple because I pitched in on the CC team (did not run CC in high school -- played football instead -- two year starter at safety) and did surprisingly well. Ended up steepling for four years and winning the conference championship my final two seasons. Glad I did it.
Forgive me. I’m just an overly concerned and overly involved father. Yes, I guess that’s a type of paranoia. Your time will come soon enough!
There are two types of people who run steeple: those who can be good at it, and those who aren't good at any other distance events. If the coach thinks your kid has potential in the steeple, it's beneficial to get started during freshmen year. Are they doing any actual hurdling practice? Or did the coach basically throw your kid to the wolves before the first race?
Dedicated practice it seems. Still in her first race she went fully submerged into the water, like if it were a swim meet. I guess it was a win that it only happened once.
It was some dual meet in crappy weather, Syracuse I think (malmo can correct me if I'm wrong). He was a natural and took to it like a fish to water (no pun intended).
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