raging clue wrote:… It’s like we’re constantly moving the goalposts with these kids. Just bask in how fun it is to watch them run unbelievably fast prep times
Yes, that’s what I find so funny
Colin could run 7:49 and someone on this board would still find a way to say that Ritz’s 8:13 indoor 3000m was actually faster than that.
It’s the funniest thing… they just can’t let go. They are stuck on the denial train.
ppllll wrote:
Heartless wrote:
Are you not paying attention? Those others could have run faster as well.
You seem to not be appreciating that the times these guys ran were not in these pro-paced, super fast track races. And none of them were actual 3K races.
For instance, LV best “indoor 3K” (his “~8:05” on that list) was day two of a three day triple at indoor HS nats, on a flat track. 14:05 5K / 8:40 2M / 4:10 Mile. Do you think he couldn’t have run faster than that 8:40? If he didn’t run 14:05 the night before? You know he went 8:29 for 2M outdoors? That’s 7:52, bruh.
LV best time at FLMW is :10 slower than Ritz’s 14:35 CR. They both ran there twice. Ritz- 14:55, 14:35… LV- 15:34 (weather), 14:45.
Ches could have ran faster than his 8:39 2M. Webb could have ran faster than his 8:45 in his all-HS, flat track run at nationals.
What’s so hard to understand? High schoolers getting in pro 3K races - let alone at the Armory or Boston - wasn’t normal back then.
Ok, what are the “adjusted” 3000m indoor times for:
Ches
Rupp
Webb
LV
We now know that Ritz would have run sub 8:00 indoor in HS
No, no. I simply believe Ritz could have run 6 seconds faster as a senior (around the time he finished 3rd at 8K WJCCC) than he did 10 months earlier at an outdoor race he won by :30. Put pro racers ahead of him on fast track. Completely reasonable.
Since LV ran ~7:52+ en route to his 8:29 outdoors, yes I’m extremely confident he too could have broken 8:00 indoors at the Armory in a race won in 7:50-:55.
14:05 / 8:40 / 4:10 indoor all-HS triple. And he couldn’t touch Ritz’s time at Kenosha.
raging clue wrote:
Why are we now holding it against HS runners who race against collegiate or pro runners? Sahlman won his race and the other two still ran 7:57,8:01. Doesn’t make their times any less impressive if they “got help” from faster runners. It’s like we’re constantly moving the goalposts with these kids. Just bask in how fun it is to watch them run unbelievably fast prep times
JFC, no one’s holding it against them! They’re doing great. Better than great. Way better than great.
None of these discussions have anything to do with THEM. It’s the fan bois and their recency bias.
Same thing happened with Hunter though. He was going to be running 12:50 by now, in medal contention, right? Because 3:58 and iNdOoR 3k rEcOrD in January.
Nope.
Totally agree no one should jump to conclusions on future times as that is meaningless. Heck, Hobbs Kessler barely broke 4 last weekend
hunter wheres the coke wrote:
Just because the kids are fast does not mean I can't hate Brosnan.
+100000000
joe mother wrote:
hunter wheres the coke wrote:
Just because the kids are fast does not mean I can't hate Brosnan.
+100000000
"People who hate you because of a mere jealousy over your success hurt themselves in disguise. This is because you carry an image of who they wish they had become"
Heartless wrote:
ppllll wrote:
It’s unfortunate that he never had the opportunity to run that sub 8 indoor in HS. That record would have been around until Nico broke it a couple of years ago.
That would have been incredible
I mean he never owned any HS records. I didn’t realize that he was so superior to all HS runners in the indoor 3000m. So much faster than Ches, LV, Webb, Rupp…
Are you not paying attention? Those others could have run faster as well.
You seem to not be appreciating that the times these guys ran were not in these pro-paced, super fast track races. And none of them were actual 3K races.
For instance, LV best “indoor 3K” (his “~8:05” on that list) was day two of a three day triple at indoor HS nats, on a flat track. 14:05 5K / 8:40 2M / 4:10 Mile. Do you think he couldn’t have run faster than that 8:40? If he didn’t run 14:05 the night before? You know he went 8:29 for 2M outdoors? That’s 7:52, bruh.
LV best time at FLMW is :10 slower than Ritz’s 14:35 CR. They both ran there twice. Ritz- 14:55, 14:35… LV- 15:34 (weather), 14:45.
Ches could have ran faster than his 8:39 2M. Webb could have ran faster than his 8:45 in his all-HS, flat track run at nationals.
What’s so hard to understand? High schoolers getting in pro 3K races - let alone at the Armory or Boston - wasn’t normal back then.
is there video of the flmw run? idk about comparing xc times with a guy who walked to the finish line at nationals
dirty sprite wrote:
I agree. Even college coaches were bitching and moaning about how the course was short and that there was no way anyone could’ve possibly touched Ritz’s record. Everyone complaining is just jealous that Brosnan has a high school team better than most college teams. He’ll probably end up in the college ranks from the work he’s done grinding it out at the high school level. Good for him and good for his team.
He's a good coach but get back to me when he does anything special with someone not named Sahlman/Young. If it's the coaching, then why do his freshmen this year suck compared to when the Youngs/Sahlman's were freshmen?
ex d1 coach wrote:
dirty sprite wrote:
I agree. Even college coaches were bitching and moaning about how the course was short and that there was no way anyone could’ve possibly touched Ritz’s record. Everyone complaining is just jealous that Brosnan has a high school team better than most college teams. He’ll probably end up in the college ranks from the work he’s done grinding it out at the high school level. Good for him and good for his team.
He's a good coach but get back to me when he does anything special with someone not named Sahlman/Young. If it's the coaching, then why do his freshmen this year suck compared to when the Youngs/Sahlman's were freshmen?
I'm sorry you're so angry for others success. I really am sorry
What kind of shoes are they wearing?
Gerry Lindgren ran an 8:40 two mile on a 11 lap banked board track in 1964.
Now that's going to be a fun thread!
blue 7 wrote:
zxcvzcxv wrote:
Ritz's 8:41ish 2M is worth about 8:02, but it was run in a high school only race. He didn't have a 7:53 guy to chase.
Nevertheless, these Newbury Park guys are doing astonishing things. Two juniors ran 7:57/8:03 here. A senior 3:58.81 with a 27.8 close. I didn't see the other Young in the results. About time to acknowledge that Brosnan's doing incredible things there.
According to Brosnan the other Young, Leo, is recovering from tendinitis but should be ready for their assault on the indoor 4 X mile.
ex d1 coach wrote:
He's a good coach but get back to me when he does anything special with someone not named Sahlman/Young. If it's the coaching, then why do his freshmen this year suck compared to when the Youngs/Sahlman's were freshmen?
I believe that Appleford, Martinez, and Doshi are the best 5th 6th and 7th runners in HS XC history, by a wide margin. I would like to know what their next seven runners could do.
Their top 4 are going to run about 13:40. I am starting to thing the John Hunt course is much tougher than anyone realized. Probably need to remeasure it to ensure that it isn't a tad long.
ex d1 coach wrote:
He's a good coach but get back to me when he does anything special with someone not named Sahlman/Young. If it's the coaching, then why do his freshmen this year suck compared to when the Youngs/Sahlman's were freshmen?
.
This is not a defense of Brosnan as I think two things can and will be true in any athlete’s success — great coaching coupled with otherworldly talent. The talent part is the most elusive in the equation as it’s genetic, whereas coaching is a learned discipline. Therefore, a lot more people can be great coaches than can be talented.
But as far doing “anything special” with runners with a different surname, what constitutes special? This is rhetorical. I mostly want to convey that great coaches can exist without top-level talent and never get credit. It’s only when talent meets coaching that we are able to see it because it’s easy to notice in winning, everything else, has to be sifted through.
For example: Is Phil Jackson the best basketball coach ever? Or did he get lucky by having Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq.
It could be that Brosnan (or any other coach) is already doing something special with other kids, such as taking a would-be 9:45 guy to a 9:20 guy. But to expect him to take would-be 9:45 guys to 8:45 is never going to happen by any coach. The difference between an 9:45 & 8:45 is cemented in their genetics.
We only notice Brosnan because of the Youngs & Sahlman, he like any other coach, hold be great and only coach guys to a 9:20, but because don’t have the ability to know what everyone’s baseline talent, a 9:20 athlete isn’t going to generate any discussion on a message board.
Lastly:
If you take away the Sahlman’s & Youngs.
8:44 Jace Aschbrenner
8:56 Daniel Appleford *
9:05 Nick Goldstein
9:13 Hector Martinez *
9:19 Aaron Cantu *
9:32 Dev Doshi *
14:46 track 5k Christian Simone
These are all runners in the last 3 years. The ones with the asterisk still have time to improve before they graduate.
Should read:
We only notice Brosnan because of the Youngs & Sahlmans. He, like any other coach, could a be great and only coach guys to a 9:20, but because we don’t have the ability to know what everyone’s baseline level of talent is, a 9:20 athlete isn’t going to generate any discussion on a message board.
The Facts of LIFE wrote:
joe mother wrote:
+100000000
"People who hate you because of a mere jealousy over your success hurt themselves in disguise. This is because you carry an image of who they wish they had become"
Neat, but I'm not jealous of Sean.
webb not trizt wrote:
ex d1 coach wrote:
He's a good coach but get back to me when he does anything special with someone not named Sahlman/Young. If it's the coaching, then why do his freshmen this year suck compared to when the Youngs/Sahlman's were freshmen?
.
This is not a defense of Brosnan as I think two things can and will be true in any athlete’s success — great coaching coupled with otherworldly talent. The talent part is the most elusive in the equation as it’s genetic, whereas coaching is a learned discipline. Therefore, a lot more people can be great coaches than can be talented.
But as far doing “anything special” with runners with a different surname, what constitutes special? This is rhetorical. I mostly want to convey that great coaches can exist without top-level talent and never get credit. It’s only when talent meets coaching that we are able to see it because it’s easy to notice in winning, everything else, has to be sifted through.
For example: Is Phil Jackson the best basketball coach ever? Or did he get lucky by having Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq.
It could be that Brosnan (or any other coach) is already doing something special with other kids, such as taking a would-be 9:45 guy to a 9:20 guy. But to expect him to take would-be 9:45 guys to 8:45 is never going to happen by any coach. The difference between an 9:45 & 8:45 is cemented in their genetics.
We only notice Brosnan because of the Youngs & Sahlman, he like any other coach, hold be great and only coach guys to a 9:20, but because don’t have the ability to know what everyone’s baseline talent, a 9:20 athlete isn’t going to generate any discussion on a message board.
Lastly:
If you take away the Sahlman’s & Youngs.
8:44 Jace Aschbrenner
8:56 Daniel Appleford *
9:05 Nick Goldstein
9:13 Hector Martinez *
9:19 Aaron Cantu *
9:32 Dev Doshi *
14:46 track 5k Christian Simone
These are all runners in the last 3 years. The ones with the asterisk still have time to improve before they graduate.
Thanks for digging up those numbers. Very relevant and helpful in the overall discussion, and kind of mind-blowing when you consider the Youngs and Sahlman as a separate entity.
Was it the Sahlman dad that was racing his kids on the obstacle course? That is one hypercomptitive family, but they seem to keep it on a fun level.
This post was removed.
HooDat wrote:
The Facts of LIFE wrote:
I'm sorry you're so angry for others success. I really am sorry
Angry for his actual success, the success he claims below or the success of teenage boys that he has taken credit for?
Sean Brosnan
Birthday: 03-12-1977
Age: 32
Hometown: Lafayette, Ca
School: Adams State College and Cal State San Marcos (what about Brevard College and Concordia Irvine?)
Club: Sponsor: Mizuno (did they give him a free T-shirt?)
Coach: self
Hobbies: running, writing, (is that writing fiction?)
Personal Records:
400: 48.91, (probably a lie)
*800: 1:48.98, (lie)
*1500: 3:43.33, (lie)
*Mile: 400.80 (lie)
*Major competitions or accomplishments: 9x All- American in College, USATF Qualifier 1500. (total lie)
What a total loser! Why make up something as outlandish as 9 all-Americans?