Is it physically impossible for many people to successfully run more than 50 mpw?

My BMI is 24, and my body fat percentage is around 15%. I'm a little heavier than most distance runners but am not fat by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't get it. I'm in my late 30s and run 90 MPW and it really doesn't take that much time and I can recover even running everyday for weeks on end. Sure if I force it to 100 or don't take down weeks I don't feel great and it can be hard to recover from workouts but what the OP is describing may be something more than just issues with running. Maybe it's a hormonal problem or a sleep issue preventing recovery.

It may be weight or more likely running form related. Or it's running too hard on the easy days. May need to cross train more and run less.

runnER/DR wrote:

You're doing something very wrong. 50 miles is not hard at all if you build up to it. You're likely pushing it way too hard in some or multiple aspects of life and training. Slow it down buddy. I'm 40 and I've averaged 50 miles a week for 6 years straight. It ain't hard at all.

With 50 being normal, what would you say your limit is? Like at what mileage would you start being at risk of injury? Also, how long have you been running?

I'm 40 as well but have only been running for 3.5 years. Currently 35-40miles is normal and ~45 is the limit. (low-19min 5k for reference)

The idea of mileage and recovery being unable to coexist is a classic sign of running easy days too fast. If you really adhere to “easy days easy, hard days hard,” whatever that means for you, then 50mpw is definitely achievable if 30-40mpw is achievable. Run conversationally- many highly competitive athletes including top college programs will run a hard workout Friday afternoon or even Friday night, then follow it up with a long run on Saturday morning without causing much extra stress. If a run being moderately long precludes it from being easy, then it was never a truly easy effort to begin with.

Old and slow wrote:

That's just 7 miles a day. It not all that challenging, even for an old f__c5 like me.

The first 7 mile day is easy. The second and third ones, not too bad. But by day 5 or so, you haven't fully recovered from the past few days, and you're feeling tired and sluggish at the beginning of the run. Day 6 is worse. Around day 8, the exhaustion extends throughout the day and not just during your runs. You come to your senses at day 10 and take the day off before the situation gets any worse. Or you push through it and either get injured or sick. One way or another, the 7 mile/day streak ends.

high mileage isn't what it's cracked up to be wrote:

sepreh wrote:

No you are fat and don't work hard.

My BMI is 24, and my body fat percentage is around 15%. I'm a little heavier than most distance runners but am not fat by any stretch of the imagination.

Nobody is saying you have to run the *magic* 100 mpw. But if you slow your runs down, 50-plus is very achievable. Start running for “time” rather than “miles.” Maybe double up some days and take other days off. But, no matter how you approach it, 50 mpw minimum is absolutely achievable, pretty much for everybody. It’s all about adaptation.

At your BMI, I would definitely be weight lifting to build muscle, which burns fat, and watch what I eat. That will definitely help with accommodating higher volume. Junk in, junk out.

In the past, I would try to build up my mileage way too fast, and feel this way. Running 15 mpw for 9 months of the year, then ramping up to 50 mpw for 12 weeks for a marathon once a year, is the perfect recipe for feeling like crap. I also carried around way too much excess weight that made each mile feel like two. That was in my 30's. 50 mpw felt near impossible to go over.

After losing 40 pounds and keeping my off season mileage up, I've been able to build up, very gradually and consistently, to 65 mpw average the past 12 months, currently peaking at 80-86 mpw for an upcoming marathon. I feel better now doing this mileage, than I did on 1/2 to 1/4 of the mileage while 15 years younger. And I'm running faster with a 15-year-older body. Why and how?

1) Consistency. Consistency. Consistency.

2) Only very gradual changes.

3) Healthy weight; BMI 21. (Get your weight right so you can run, don't run so you can lose weight).

It might not work for everyone, though.

I just don't see how 50mpw is all that much. 1 hour of activity a day shouldn't be hard for a normal healthy person, obviously it takes some time to get there, but they recommend 30 minutes a day from childhood, so 30 more can't be that much.

I am 6'6" and 220lbs, overweight? Yes. Slow? Yes, 21 minute 5k, 3:28 marathon. I've been jogging (see race times) for 16 months, the last half have all been over 50mpw... maybe I am falling into the confirmation bias, and the 'I did so you can to' crowd, but slow easy miles shouldn't leave you broken.

I agree most people could run 50 mpw if they are a healthy weight, not otherwise handicapped, built up to it, and did the recovery work.

I spend an hour or more a day during high mileage foam rolling, doing movement drills like yoga, with the graston tool, etc.

For some it is easy, for others like me once I get to 50+ I need to do the recovery work but I stay uninjured.

All of my 50 mpw buildups involved increases of less than 10% a week. A typical schedule would be something like this:

30 mpw for several weeks, felt great

32 miles

34 miles

36 miles

39 miles, started feeling tired often

31 miles

40 miles, not feeling much better

42 miles

45 miles

47 miles, felt like sh!t the past 2 weeks

32 miles

48... ah, forget about it. Often ended up with some kind of tendonitis by this point that was getting steadily worse. Got mono once. Sometimes came to my senses and decided it wasn't worth feeling miserable all day just for the sake of trying to hit an arbitrary number.

That last figure wasn't always 48 and could be anywhere from 46 to 50. But I haven't run a single 51+ mile week in my entire life.

Speed

Endurance

Work Ethic

Durability

You need all 4 to succeed with the best in NCAA or past that to Elite/Pro

Many, many in HS have at least 2 out of the first three qualities and are successful and usually, in HS, the ones with the most natural Speed and Endurance genetically speaking win State Championships.

But, Durability is often the factor that makes the most difference for the most successful athletes in the long term.

Too many very talented athletes from HS go on to NCAA only to get clobbered by high mileage and intensity but without the natural genetic quality of durability to handle the work load.

The ability to train day in day out (MPW + workouts) means with strong Work Ethic, the genetically superior athletes with Speed and Endurance can be either matched or surpassed by those with Durability who have a strong Work Ethic.

But again, having all 4 gets you to the tip top.

Sub-9 guy wrote:

...if you slow your runs down, 50-plus is very achievable. Start running for “time” rather than “miles.” Maybe double up some days and take other days off. But, no matter how you approach it, 50 mpw minimum is absolutely achievable, pretty much for everybody. It’s all about adaptation.

I can't agree more on how important this is. If you want to get your mileage up, you've got to slow them down, sometimes way down; especially if you're prone to injury. The OP might be one of these people that responds to the Mafetone training method. Although it's not a training method I follow, the OP might want to look into it.

Also, if you're injury prone, follow methods used by masters runners for injury avoidance. OP, you might want to check out what Jonathan Walton is doing. He's in his 50's, runs 2:30 marathons (world class time for 50-54M) on very high mileage. But he does 90% of it very slow (for him) at very low heart rates and sometimes incorporating walking breaks (if needed to keep the heart rate aerobic).

OP, are at least 80-90% of your miles run at a pace that is very easy, and very comfortable pace?

high mileage isn't what it's cracked up to be wrote:

Sometimes came to my senses and decided it wasn't worth feeling miserable all day just for the sake of trying to hit an arbitrary number.

Why sometimes? Why were you trying to hit 50?

lexel wrote:

Don't run 7 day/week.

I've experimented with different running frequencies and do agree that running every day is a bad idea. I've generally found the following to work for me:

6 runs/week

"Odd weeks" : 6 runs over 6 days, 1 day off

"Even weeks": 6 runs over 5 days. 1 day of doubles, 2 days off

haverunlots wrote:

high mileage isn't what it's cracked up to be wrote:

Sometimes came to my senses and decided it wasn't worth feeling miserable all day just for the sake of trying to hit an arbitrary number.

Why sometimes? Why were you trying to hit 50?

Because I bought into the idea that more miles mean faster times, and 50 miles / 80 km is a nice round number to shoot for.

I ran faster when I was doing 35 mile weeks than when I was doing 45 mile weeks. I should have kept it at 35 instead of trying to hit 50.

There's also a good argument to be made that all running should be easy if 50MPW is where your body starts to break down. Given enough time, your average runner can probably get to low or even sub-3 marathon on 50MPW of all easy miles given a few years of consistent running. 12 months of 50MPW all easy >>> 9 months of 80/20 running w/3 months sitting out due to injuries.

I've largely avoided injuries during my running career, but the few injuries I did incur were caused by hill reps and 400/800 repeats. So I now do slower 1 or 2-mile repeats, tempo progression runs that slowly build up to tempo pace, and don't do hill sprints anymore, I simply do one run a week on a slightly hilly course. Throw in goblet squats a few times a week and I haven't had any issues for the past 2 years.

People are running experiments of "ONE". Not everyone responds to the same running stimulus the same. Not everyone responds to the same shoes the same. Runner's muscles, tendons, lungs, arteries, and brains are different and respond different. If you break down at 50 miles per week, go to 40 than 35 than 30 than eventually a miles per week that you can run without breaking down your body and build from there.

The Science in Running talked about this in their video:

https://youtu.be/cN9O9EzOEww

Find what distance, shoes, etc that works for you. This sounds like a David45 post, but I was triggered.

high mileage isn't what it's cracked up to be wrote:

All of my 50 mpw buildups involved increases of less than 10% a week. A typical schedule would be something like this:

30 mpw for several weeks, felt great

32 miles

34 miles

36 miles

39 miles, started feeling tired often

31 miles

40 miles, not feeling much better

42 miles

45 miles

47 miles, felt like sh!t the past 2 weeks

32 miles

48... ah, forget about it. Often ended up with some kind of tendonitis by this point that was getting steadily worse. Got mono once. Sometimes came to my senses and decided it wasn't worth feeling miserable all day just for the sake of trying to hit an arbitrary number.

That last figure wasn't always 48 and could be anywhere from 46 to 50. But I haven't run a single 51+ mile week in my entire life.

You're talking about adaptations that can take months, even years, to develop. Throw out the 10%-per-week rule. It doesn't work for everyone.

What I would suggest, if you enjoy running and want to do it for a long time, shift your mind away from increasing your average weekly mileage. Shift it to thinking over the time span of a year, and multiple years.

Go back to your 30 mile weeks where you feel great, and hold it there. Don't try to ramp it up to 40 in a month and 50 the month after that. You're doing it too fast for your body, at this moment.

Think about keeping it a 30 mpw for a year. Yes, a full year. If that goes well, you enjoy it are injury free and want to go higher, set 40 mpw as a goal for year two. Year three, 50 mpw, and so on. At some point along the way if it starts to feel outrageously easy, add 1% mileage the next week and hold it there, until again, it feels outrageously easy.

Think more in the range of adding an extra mile per week every month, not every 3 days.

The importance of consistency over time cannot be emphasized enough.

Two other factors: hydration and warming up.  Apparently if you aren't  well hydrated your muscles lose flexibility, making injury more likely.  If you have a habit of running without drinking much water this could be an issue.  Also I find that as I get older it's more important to be well warmed up, even for running paces that would have been considered slow for me just a few years ago.  And when it's cold outside this is super important.  I rarely do any sort of warming up before runs when I'm solo.