Say it with me: Cole Hocker's kick is overrated.

Hocker has a good kick - duh. His race at Millrose was a totally solid season opener, but a bit lackluster after some of his exciting 2021 performances.

This thread should be more about Geordie Beamish running 12.32 for the last 100m, which is considerably faster than anyone else ran for any 100m in the 3k, mile, or even the 800. Teare closed in 12.95, the next best final 100m of the day in those 3 events, and the pacer in the 800 ran his second 100m in 12.44. 12.32 at the end of a 7:39 3k is seriously impressive, and shows he can kick with absolutely anyone in the world in the right race.

You are committing the exact same logical fallacy I called out the Hocker fans on. Geordie Beamish is the illusion of speed. He won a slow race against G League runners with bad pacing and a fast 100m split. Against good runners in a race that isnt slow, that kick will be exposed for how lackluster it truly is.

OozmaKappa wrote:

You are committing the exact same logical fallacy I called out the Hocker fans on. Geordie Beamish is the illusion of speed. He won a slow race against G League runners with bad pacing and a fast 100m split. Against good runners in a race that isnt slow, that kick will be exposed for how lackluster it truly is.

Ok

wannabepro25 wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

A 1500 or what? In a 1500, I'd say 3:34 and it's game on.

Yes, we’ve seen Hocker drop a 52 second last lap in the semi-final running 3:33 cruising past Cheriyout. If the first 1100 is 59 second pace, Hocker has a legitimate shot to win. I can see Hocker winning those lowkey diamond leagues where they don’t commit to the pacer or they do but run a 60 second penultimate lap. Those are the type of races Hocker thrives on.

I suppose these guesses are possible, but we'll never know since Jakob doesn't run in this style against strong competition. We can only go on what we know, and that is his mid 54 in a 3:28. I would imagine he would drop a 52 in a race that is 5 or 6 seconds slower, but who's to know..

OozmaKappa wrote:

Hocker, young? That hairline looks 30 💀

Stay running related snowflake.

OozmaKappa wrote:

You are committing the exact same logical fallacy I called out the Hocker fans on. Geordie Beamish is the illusion of speed. He won a slow race against G League runners with bad pacing and a fast 100m split. Against good runners in a race that isnt slow, that kick will be exposed for how lackluster it truly is.

Post your PRs sunshine. Or your coaching vitae. Otherwise……..yawn.

high school xc coach wrote:

wannabepro25 wrote:

Yes, we’ve seen Hocker drop a 52 second last lap in the semi-final running 3:33 cruising past Cheriyout. If the first 1100 is 59 second pace, Hocker has a legitimate shot to win. I can see Hocker winning those lowkey diamond leagues where they don’t commit to the pacer or they do but run a 60 second penultimate lap. Those are the type of races Hocker thrives on.

I suppose these guesses are possible, but we'll never know since Jakob doesn't run in this style against strong competition. We can only go on what we know, and that is his mid 54 in a 3:28. I would imagine he would drop a 52 in a race that is 5 or 6 seconds slower, but who's to know..

Yes. Everyone who says that Jakob has no kick is simply guessing. He's never had to kick because he's either racing properly from the gun against Cheruiyot, or he's in a field that he can completely dominate so can run below 100% effort (e.g. Gateshead Diamond League last year) and still pull a 3:33. I can only see him truly trying to kick if he's experimenting with race tactics, or if he screws up badly. The fact is, he's on a level so far above anyone but Cheruiyot that he doesn't even have to get involved in tactical battles

nooooooo wrote:

That being said, he is still a 3:31 runner at 20, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him get down to 3:29 low in a few years, and be a true contender for medals on the world stage.

3:29 is the new 3:32 with the super shoes and tracks. Good enough to compete in a final, probably not going to win or threaten a medal

high school xc coach wrote:

wannabepro25 wrote:

Yes, we’ve seen Hocker drop a 52 second last lap in the semi-final running 3:33 cruising past Cheriyout. If the first 1100 is 59 second pace, Hocker has a legitimate shot to win. I can see Hocker winning those lowkey diamond leagues where they don’t commit to the pacer or they do but run a 60 second penultimate lap. Those are the type of races Hocker thrives on.

I suppose these guesses are possible, but we'll never know since Jakob doesn't run in this style against strong competition. We can only go on what we know, and that is his mid 54 in a 3:28. I would imagine he would drop a 52 in a race that is 5 or 6 seconds slower, but who's to know..

This. Hocker is only going to beat Ingebrigsten if Hocker somehow gets down to 3:28 AND Ingebrigsten doesn't get any faster (both are unlikely). Ingebrigsten has no reason to, and will not, run a slow race when he knows only one person on earth is capable of beating him in a fast race (and he has the endurance to not fade in a 1500). Ingebrigsten is unquestionably the better and more talented runner so it's up to Hocker to somehow overcome that deficit and its certainly not going to be in a slow "tactical" race. That style of race is long gone if either Ingebrigsten or Cheriyout are in the final.

Hocker is fun to watch though. He always looks like he's waiving his arms about trying to catch a bus.

OozmaKappa wrote:

You are committing the exact same logical fallacy I called out the Hocker fans on. Geordie Beamish is the illusion of speed. He won a slow race against G League runners with bad pacing and a fast 100m split. Against good runners in a race that isnt slow, that kick will be exposed for how lackluster it truly is.

I’m not sure you know what it means to have a good kick. Stewart McSweyn could almost certainly run away from Beamish over 3000m, but he couldn’t run 12.32 at the end of a 7:39. McSweyn is clearly the superior athlete to this point, but Beamish has a much better kick. Beamish’s kick in a “modestly” paced 3k (i.e. 7:39) is good enough to compete with anyone in the world.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

This thread should be more about Geordie Beamish running 12.32 for the last 100m, which is considerably faster than anyone else ran for any 100m in the 3k, mile, or even the 800. Teare closed in 12.95, the next best final 100m of the day in those 3 events, and the pacer in the 800 ran his second 100m in 12.44. 12.32 at the end of a 7:39 3k is seriously impressive, and shows he can kick with absolutely anyone in the world in the right race.

Yes, Beamish has a really good kick. OozmaKappa should be redirecting his bad takes to Beamish who sandbagged this race AND got lucky that Teare went wide. Not Hocker whose kick has basically led to maximal place in every race.

Beamish showed in this race and last year in the ones vs. Engels that he has a top-level kick. To be a factor in global races, he's going to have to put his nose in it earlier or risk getting bounced in the Semis or finishing lower than he should. It reminds me of Marcin Lewandowski when he first took off the 1500. It's great to finish like a train, but tactically you have to be further up the better the competition gets.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I’m not sure you know what it means to have a good kick. Stewart McSweyn could almost certainly run away from Beamish over 3000m, but he couldn’t run 12.32 at the end of a 7:39. McSweyn is clearly the superior athlete to this point, but Beamish has a much better kick. Beamish’s kick in a “modestly” paced 3k (i.e. 7:39) is good enough to compete with anyone in the world.

Oozma, you realize different runners have strengths and weakness. McSweyn has a ridiculous engine and can hang with a 7:27 pace or 3:28 pace. He can take on the race from halfway through in these races and hold on for a very fast time beating runners like Hocker or Beamish at this juncture. However, if he in a 3:35 race or 7:45 race and lets the pace lag Hocker and Beamish are going to blow his door off to the tune of a 1-2 second margin win because they can run 12.3/25.5 for that last 100 and 200 and he can not.

Osama doesn't realise anything. He's a bot. If he was a person he'd be a third rate poster who knows nothing about running. A total loser. Osama has done less than nothing here. He's a disgrace to the great posters of Letsrun. In fact, if Osama is a person, he's a complete disaster, Nobody can be this stupid.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

You are committing the exact same logical fallacy I called out the Hocker fans on. Geordie Beamish is the illusion of speed. He won a slow race against G League runners with bad pacing and a fast 100m split. Against good runners in a race that isnt slow, that kick will be exposed for how lackluster it truly is.

I’m not sure you know what it means to have a good kick. Stewart McSweyn could almost certainly run away from Beamish over 3000m, but he couldn’t run 12.32 at the end of a 7:39. McSweyn is clearly the superior athlete to this point, but Beamish has a much better kick. Beamish’s kick in a “modestly” paced 3k (i.e. 7:39) is good enough to compete with anyone in the world.

Stewart McSweyn could kick much better if he had a different approach to races. IMO, he needs a sport psychologist. S. McSweyn believes he cannot kick. S. McSweyn, after leading some 1500m races up to 1200m mark sometimes slows down over final 300m. S. McSweyn's best event is 1500m. He's inferior at 5000m. I would like to know: Does McSweyn power lift, especially squats, sprint coordination drills, film sessions while sprinting?

Finance Bro wrote:

Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in the world.

Hocker is an elite middle distance talent with one of the best finishing kicks in NCAA and America.

Fixed it for you. Its incredible how people here dont understand the single fact that you have more left in the tank to do a kick when you are racing a bunch of high schoolers in a 3:36 race than when your name is Tim and you are beating Yakob in the Diamond League.

Be a bit more respectful, Hocker should earn it by consistently beating world class runners.

Hocker earned respect last year. And he will earn respect again this year. I'm on Team Hocker side.

Dyestat Rumor 2 wrote:

nooooooo wrote:

That being said, he is still a 3:31 runner at 20, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him get down to 3:29 low in a few years, and be a true contender for medals on the world stage.

3:29 is the new 3:32 with the super shoes and tracks. Good enough to compete in a final, probably not going to win or threaten a medal

Not really. Kerr managed to grab a bronze with a 3:29. 3:29 is still 3:29.

600yd/600m man wrote:

Stewart McSweyn could kick much better if he had a different approach to races. IMO, he needs a sport psychologist. S. McSweyn believes he cannot kick. S. McSweyn, after leading some 1500m races up to 1200m mark sometimes slows down over final 300m. S. McSweyn's best event is 1500m. He's inferior at 5000m. I would like to know: Does McSweyn power lift, especially squats, sprint coordination drills, film sessions while sprinting?

That’s not so unusual for a guy running 3:29-3:30, or anyone approaching their max performance for that matter. His best event is the 1500 only when it’s run as a time trial, and becomes much less competitive in a kickers’ race. Some athletes just have that profile. I highly doubt he needs a sports psychologist.