Ethiopia's got some very exciting young studs coming through. I'm excited to see what Aregawi, and a couple of others, do this year. Shame, the Kenyan dislike for indoor running continues to deprive the circuit of some interesting clashes.
Ethiopia's got some very exciting young studs coming through. I'm excited to see what Aregawi, and a couple of others, do this year. Shame, the Kenyan dislike for indoor running continues to deprive the circuit of some interesting clashes.
OozmaKappa wrote:
For those curious, the list goes: Kiplimo, Barega, Aregawi, Kipruto, Wale, and Oscar Chelimo.
What achievements do Oscar Chelimo have?
ljs wrote:
Just want to call out your misinformation: you can't say 0 and then admit there is 1 with El Guerrouj.
Thank you, Swim Chicken.
Q: How many Olympic Games failures did El Guerrouj, with his multitude of indoor and outdoor world records, have before he won his 1500m gold medal? The stars aligned on his final go-around, in the final race of his career. Most track mid-d/distance runners who set world records had ended up NOT winning the Olympics. El Guerrouj was teetering on the "0" list as well.
OozmaKappa wrote:Any wr holder can win gold medals. Not all gold medallists can break world records. The world record is the pinnacle of achievement in our sport.
The British press disagree.
On Cram: "For all his glories, before 16 July 1985 he hadn’t held a world record. Nineteen days later he had set three. ... "As a miler he achieved almost everything possible. But not quite. Being slightly short of his magnificent best on August 11, 1984 meant silver [QFE] was the best he ever managed at the Olympics."
Cram is not one of the greats of the sport. If you speak to Gebrselassie, El Guerrouj, Bekele, Coe, etc. they all state that the World Record is their proudest achievements.
Even El Guerrouj on his IG headlines with WR and not his 2 Olympic Gold Medals -
ljs wrote:
Cram is not one of the greats of the sport. If you speak to Gebrselassie, El Guerrouj, Bekele, Coe, etc. they all state that the World Record is their proudest achievements.
Even El Guerrouj on his IG headlines with WR and not his 2 Olympic Gold Medals -
https://www.instagram.com/elguerroujhicham/?hl=en
Sure thing mate.
Wake me up when Barega, Aregawi, Kipruto, Wale or Chelimo run 3 world records in 19 days.
Or 3 world records.
Really impressive showing. Hope he can keep it rolling outdoors. Will be fun to see where his track 5000 lies.
As an aside, can't help but feel the World Athletics story was poorly written. I thought it was an Ethiopian site at first.
I'm hoping he will chase the indoor 5000 meter world record. I think he has the tools to get it done.
Adri1 wrote:
Aregawi was 4th on the 10,000m at Tokyo and won the Diamond League on 5,000m at Zurich last summer. You can hardly say his summer was bad though he didn't medal at the Olympics. He will be the favorite in the World Indoor Championship on 3,000m but he need a fast race. In a tactical race, his lack of kick will be a problem.
Favorite to World Indoor!? Have you seen a start list?
If Kejelcha, Barega, Wale, Girma , Jakob are participating Aregawi is hardly a favorite.
objectiveobserver wrote:
Favorite to World Indoor!? Have you seen a start list?
If Kejelcha, Barega, Wale, Girma , Jakob are participating Aregawi is hardly a favorite.
He left the Moroccan/Spanish Adel Mechaal 10 seconds behind him.
Recall that Mechaal ranked 5 with 3:30:77 in the final 1500m of Tokyo.
ljs wrote:
Cram is not one of the greats of the sport. If you speak to Gebrselassie, El Guerrouj, Bekele, Coe, etc. they all state that the World Record is their proudest achievements.
Even El Guerrouj on his IG headlines with WR and not his 2 Olympic Gold Medals -
https://www.instagram.com/elguerroujhicham/?hl=en
Umm, Cram set THREE world records in 1985: 1500m, mile, 2000m. You, unwittingly, made the case for his greatness.
Nike Oregon Waffle Racer House wrote:
[quote]ljs wrote:
Umm, Cram set THREE world records in 1985: 1500m, mile, 2000m. You, unwittingly, made the case for his greatness.
Cram won a single gold medal in the 1983, the same year were Aouita (way unexperimented) was the favorite being the author of the best time of the year. Also in 1985, his record didn't last more than 1 month.
I know my answer will upset someone.
Armstronglivs wrote:
Not all wr holders can win championship golds. They often don't. By the same logic, wr's are not necessarily the pinnacle, either.
You just inverted what I said without putting any thought into how wrong you are lol.
Anyone who sets and holds a WR is at that point in time the best to ever compete in their discipline. They have the highest realized potential of any person ever to compete and therefore have the highest ceiling that we know of. Therefore, they could win any race, because they are literally the best to ever do it at that point. This of course includes championship races. Such is reflected and thereby evident in the odds for any race that a WR holder takes part in. Lastly, that WR holders dont win every race does not disprove that they could have won any given race. Just because they can doesnt mean they will with certainty.
T;dr: If at your best you are better than anyone else has ever been, then there is no race you cannot potentially win. You will always have the potential to win because your ceiling is higher.
Setting a world record and pushing the known boundary of what the human race is capable of is the pinnacle of achievement in our sport.
I look forward to the 3000 at Millrose tomorrow. Hope our guys can break 7:40.
OozmaKappa wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Not all wr holders can win championship golds. They often don't. By the same logic, wr's are not necessarily the pinnacle, either.
You just inverted what I said without putting any thought into how wrong you are lol.
Anyone who sets and holds a WR is at that point in time the best to ever compete in their discipline. They have the highest realized potential of any person ever to compete and therefore have the highest ceiling that we know of. Therefore, they could win any race, because they are literally the best to ever do it at that point. This of course includes championship races. Such is reflected and thereby evident in the odds for any race that a WR holder takes part in. Lastly, that WR holders dont win every race does not disprove that they could have won any given race. Just because they can doesnt mean they will with certainty.
T;dr: If at your best you are better than anyone else has ever been, then there is no race you cannot potentially win. You will always have the potential to win because your ceiling is higher.
Setting a world record and pushing the known boundary of what the human race is capable of is the pinnacle of achievement in our sport.
Do you also count on INDOOR WRs Oozma?
Nah. Indoor is weird. Best not to take it seriously.
So I was searching for the meaning of the name "Berihu Aregawi" and here is what I found:
1. It's a pure African name, probably close close to Amharic Language (? need confirmation).
2. The name Berihu is of African origin and means "Some one bright".
3. The name Aregawi is of African origin and means "a young man as wise as elders".
That's a valid point of view, but the problem that I have with people putting WRs over everything is that :
1. They don't account for your skill as a racer : Mexico City stands out to me here. Kip Keino's 3:32 OG at altitude is one of the greatest races in my opinion, as he took advantage of the Altitude and neutralized WR holder Ryun's kick by bringing the race out at a crazy fast pace. Personally, I find these kinds of races more impressive that WR solo attempts, as everyone is aiming to be at their best for the olympic final. It shows who can rise to the occasion and perform under pressure. Same with El G's 1996 fall and 2000 loss to Ngeny and then his comeback in 2004, I think that's the greatest 1500 race ever, better than his WR. I know this is personal preference though.
2. Recent WRs don't account for tech. improvements: It can be debated endlessly that Bekele could have run 57:25 in Vaporflies 10 years ago, or 12:34/26:10 in Dragonflies at his 5k peak ... The only thing we can be sure of now, is that Cheptegei/Kiplimo are the fastest of this generation with the current track and shoe technology. When it comes down to such small margins, every little thing makes a difference.
OozmaKappa wrote:Tl;dr: If at your best you are better than anyone else has ever been, then there is no race you cannot potentially win. You will always have the potential to win because your ceiling is higher.
Better than anyone else in your vernacular means faster than anyone else. However, as has been proven, not very many 'fastest of all time' types win the Olympics.
1988. What was Ron's PR entering the 15? I don't think a single Kenyan gives a rat's aß that he never set a world record.
Was Harry Reynolds, who had "the highest ceiling" that we knew of, victorious in the 400m?
That people have potential on the day is not really relevant. Are they likely to deliver on that potential is the question. Unsurprisingly, no, not very many world record holders will win Olympic gold.
Your own list includes not one, but two world record holders who won Olympic gold. John Walker won 1500 gold in 1976.
Additionally, El Guerrouj won 2 golds; I know you're primarily discussing people in relation to their 'main' event, but he did win the 2004 Olympic 5000 gold as well.
As for all this bickering about whether WRs or Olympic golds are the better mark of greatness, I say they answer two different questions. A WR simply signifies the single greatest physical performance in a discipline, and the person who produced it has demonstrated the highest potential ceiling for pure, quantifiable performance. But potential is different from actually showing up on the day and outperforming the best athletes in your event. The notion that the WR holder is automatically the greatest just because 'they have the potential to win any race' is absurd; if they gave out medals based on potential or personal bests, there would be no reason to hold championships at all. Therefore Olympic (or WC, or Trials, etc.) victory simply signifies who was the best at the one specific moment in which it counted most. Winning multiple such victories, however, demonstrates a pattern of excellence at the most important moments.
tl;dr: either a world record or an Olympic gold medal is a monumental athletic achievement, but only the latter tells you who came out on top against the world's best when they all wanted it most.