Cynthia Millen 30 year veteran of USA Swimming resigns in protest over Trans athlete Lia Thomas

Did I say the government was trashing Rowling's career? Did I even agree that her career has been trashed? I only recall asking why someone's career, didn't even mention her name there, should find their career trashed for expressing an opinion.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Why do you feel ill will towards Ledecky? She didn't do anything wrong. If I was a swimming fan, I would be rooting for her to beat Thomas.

No ill will towards Ledecky at all; she is one of my favorite athletes to watch at the Olympics. I think I watched every race she did in Tokyo. But the reality is something drastic is going to need to happen to save women's sports. Nobody is going to flinch if Thomas beats up on college women at NCAAs. But if a world superstar like Ledecky gets crushed it will be impossible for the mass media to hide it from the public. Someone will need to answer the question, "How did you let this happen?" It is sad but someone of Ledecky's caliber is going to need to be the sacrificial lamb on the grandest stage in sports in order to save sports for future generations of women. I wouldn't mind seeing three guys with full beards standing on the podium in Paris with medals around their necks for sweeping the "Women's (insert event name here)." A little slap will not get the public's attention; we need a public lynching in the pool in Paris.

By far, my preference would be for Thomas to back off before she gets to that level and maybe she will. It would be ugly if she were to win an Olympic medal and it would trigger a backlash that will exceed more than just transgender athletes competing in sports.

I don't have an interest in there being a public lynching.

It wouldn't create as much outrage as you hope. Look at the 2016 800m podium, and this is an American.

If NBC embraced it early with profile stories, it could go the wrong way entirely.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

For sure, all of them will be suspended by the N.C.A.A for rejecting its rules.

The boycotting swimmers would be sacrificing their collegiate athletic careers even though it will not change the transgender athlete policies. Many posters have called for a righteous refusal to compete against Thomas but what sacrifice will they be making to support the cause?

They're in a tough spot.

HRE wrote:

You keep missing the parts of my posts where I say nothing significant is going to come of this and it's for for the same reason you allude to.

I think this incident may actually have opened up a mechanism that creates enough pressure to do something: parents of athletes complaining. Parents have more power, less to lose, and (especially Penn parents) a lot of money. A lot of schools have sports programs because it draws student-athletes who want a chance to keep competing. Outside of a relatively few programs, most student athletes aren't on scholarship. That means the parents of student-athletes are sending a lot of tuition dollars to schools. You know what administrators hate more than almost anything else? Unhappy parents. If there's a drop off in interest in the program, or recruiting success, or alumni donations, administrators will notice.

This won't lead to the dramatic, once-and-for-all moment that people fantasize about, but it may create steady pressure to find a different approach.

I agree completely about schools hating unhappy parents. But the number of transgender athletes is so small now that you're going to have a very limited number of unhappy parents and the transgender ones also have parents who will be unhappy if their kids are barred. And schools also hate being the focal point of criticism and dealing with lawsuits.

QT wrote:

One fewer bigot. 👍

This is the left's way of avoiding meaningful conversation. Call someone a bigot and ignore anything they have to say.

In Hitler's time, replace bigot with the star of David.

The Truth Hurts wrote:

QT wrote:

One fewer bigot. 👍

This is the left's way of avoiding meaningful conversation. Call someone a bigot and ignore anything they have to say.

In Hitler's time, replace bigot with the star of David.

Why do you think the left is avoiding meaningful conversation in regard to Thomas?

"You don't know what paradox means......" I'm using it here very loosely my friend. It's just so strange and unfortunate how this situation has come about. I'm not against Trans athletes completing but how do you regulate something that is inherently massively differentiated from person to person, yet be fair to the whole of the competition?

The Narwhal wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

For sure, all of them will be suspended by the N.C.A.A for rejecting its rules.

The boycotting swimmers would be sacrificing their collegiate athletic careers even though it will not change the transgender athlete policies. Many posters have called for a righteous refusal to compete against Thomas but what sacrifice will they be making to support the cause?

They're in a tough spot.

https://swimswam.com/penn-women-reportedly-considered-boycotting-seasons-final-home-meet-on-jan-8

The article includes this misleading statement:

"They’ve been ignored by both Penn and the NCAA..."

Both Penn and the N.C.A.A are aware of the Thomas situation and understand she has an unfair advantage, but there really isn't anything either can do about it. Penn can't kick an eligible athlete off of its team and the N.C.A.A. can't change the rules mid-season.

HRE wrote:

Did I say the government was trashing Rowling's career? Did I even agree that her career has been trashed? I only recall asking why someone's career, didn't even mention her name there, should find their career trashed for expressing an opinion.

And I answered your question.

A person should find their career trashed for expressing and opinion when that opinion is one that many people disagree with.

If I find out that a movie star is a racist, that is just them expressing their opinion. However, for me at least, that opinion is one I disagree agree with so strongly that I will likely not consider paying to watch their films.

Rowling expressed an opinion which many people disagree with. Some vocal portion of the public have called her on it, and her career has suffered a bit.

Everyone can express and opinion, but it’s naive to think that this means there are no consequences.

So you're perfectly fine with injustices being confined to the collegiate level?

SDSU Aztec wrote:

By far, my preference would be for Thomas to back off before she gets to that level and maybe she will. It would be ugly if she were to win an Olympic medal and it would trigger a backlash that will exceed more than just transgender athletes competing in sports.

I don't have an interest in there being a public lynching.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The Truth Hurts wrote:

This is the left's way of avoiding meaningful conversation. Call someone a bigot and ignore anything they have to say.

In Hitler's time, replace bigot with the star of David.

Why do you think the left is avoiding meaningful conversation in regard to Thomas?

I’m politically a lefty… I’m okay with paying more taxes to help out the less fortunate.

Also, I live in Canada so I’m all for free health care and generally pro LGBTQ +

However, I’m against transwomen competing as girls/women in sports.

Though I’d support them on almost all other things ( this is the only issue I know of which I do not support).

I think girls and women’s sports should be protected.

Just because they consider themselves to be born in the wrong body doesn’t mean they are females.

(I don’t think girls transitioning to boys have any impact in sport so a non issues… it’s just the boys playing as girls that I have an issue with…. They should all compete in open event- the men’s).

Yes, it would suck to be transgendered and not be able to participate in sport in the gender that you prefer to participate as but tough luck… you don’t get to participate as a girl because you are not biologically a girl and long before you considered yourself as a girl, you participated as boys so… should not be a big deal.

No way Caitlyn Jenner is allowed to compete in the decathlon as a woman…. If there was a decathlon for women in the olympics.

I was responding to the claim made that liberals are avoiding conversation about transgender athletes. Why would they and if someone wants to say they believe transgender athletes have an unfair advantage they will not be called a bigot.

In regard to your first 2 paragraphs, you are about 10,000th poster to state your opposition to transgender athletes. In your last post it's odd you used "decathlon" and Jenner is 72 years old anyway.

All this growing trans insanity is doing is hurting actual female athletes, basically pushing them to the side in favor of these male-female hybrid athletes. As the culture continues to normalize trans women you will see them slowly start being more competitive and eventually dominating in sports. In one generation alone you went from never hearing about trans women competing in sports to trans women/girls winning state titles, getting Olympic berths, setting collegiate records, etc.

I can only imagine how omnipresent trans dominance in women sports will be in say 2040.

Not paying to use a product of someone who says something you don't like and you're totally within your rights to do it. I've done it myself. That is not trashing someone's career. Trashing a career is more along the lines of not simply purchasing someone they've made but also trying to get others to do the same and also prevent that someone from being able or willing to express that opinion where people can hear it which itself is different from expressing disagreement with a person's opinion. That should not happen and doing it to someone because you think they're intolerant could almost be funny. We all need to hear opinions that we find disagreeable and we need to give those ideas some thought. It's a way to learn.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

All this growing trans insanity is doing is hurting actual female athletes, basically pushing them to the side in favor of these male-female hybrid athletes. As the culture continues to normalize trans women you will see them slowly start being more competitive and eventually dominating in sports. In one generation alone you went from never hearing about trans women competing in sports to trans women/girls winning state titles, getting Olympic berths, setting collegiate records, etc.

I can only imagine how omnipresent trans dominance in women sports will be in say 2040.

If what you're predicting here does happen I think you'll begin seeing serious efforts at addressing the issue in a way that protects sports for biological females. I think a big reason there's not more push back now is that it's a very visible issue that actually affects a very small number of people. Really, how many people paid attention to Ivy League women's swimming until this issue popped up? How many people's daughter started for their high school varsity basketball team last year but are now on the bench a lot because a decent boy's player transitioned and took her spot? But if you get to where the next phenoms in women's tennis are not cute 15-16 year old girls whose parents had them hitting tennis balls while they were still fetuses but some 19 year old who was a varsity men's player at Stanford the year before and transitioned in the last year it will be an issue that attracts a lot more thought and attention.