Jacob Kiplimo is an Absolute Phenomenon : 57:31 completely solo in Lisbon

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Be Like Jake wrote:

What kind of shoes was he wearing?

Good question. 4% of 60:00 is 2:24 so this figures to be just under 60:00, old shoes. Excellent but not phenomenal.

Another thing after this run - every american runner currently at it is closer to Gidey than Kiplimo, no ? Halfway between 57:31 and 62:52 is ~60:20.

silviuburceadev wrote:

People forget that in the same race when Kandie has set 57.32 WR there was Kiplimo in 2nd, who also ran 57.37. This 57.31 isn't a crazy jump in performance, just 6 seconds.

I'm not sure it's fair to say this wasn't a 'crazy jump in performance'. I wouldn't call it crazy but I would say 57:31 completely alone is substantially better than 57:37 taking 2nd in the most competitive, deepest half marathon of all time. In Valencia 2020 there was a pack of 5 or 6 men until well after 15k if i remember correctly, with multiple people (Mutiso, Kandie, etc) throwing surges in the latter stages. From what I watched the other day, Kiplimo was alone almost from the gun but at any rate certainly ran the last 16k completely by himself. That is an astounding solo performance. The only thing comparable in recent years is Eliud's 2:01:39, where he was visibly the one keeping the pace up after halfway and was completely alone from 25k.

These results are getting ridiculous now. Yes the shoes have made a difference but it has to be something else as well. Watch the race the guy is breathing through his nose running 4.15 a mile for 13 miles! Its not so much the pace its that expressionless look. I seriously doubt these results. The only thing i can assume is due to covid these guys are getting a free run at it with very little testing. Yes shoes have changed, diets have changed but i for one am not buying these times.

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""-""""--'-"--^' wrote:

Yeah what a beast. Epo works and the athletes are always a step ahead of the testers. The testing system is too easy to understand and predictable, so circumvention is easy, especially since it's so easy to rid your system of the remnants of the PED. He didn't look otherworldly at the Olympics. The testing was more stringent. He was free to reload after the Olympics and get ready to make bank off a wr on the roads. He did just that. Congrats because most off the others at the top are bent off PEDs too let's be real here.

Still almost zero positives from the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland and others ? ... Not suspicious at all. East Africans are tested more than the rest of the world combined. Yes, a few bad apples have been caught in Kenya, but here in Uganda we haven't let the shady European managers take root. Change the shtick Steve, it's becoming boring.

Rupp ran 59:47

SouthernSun wrote:

Be Like Jake wrote:

What kind of shoes was he wearing?

Good question. 4% of 60:00 is 2:24 so this figures to be just under 60:00, old shoes. Excellent but not phenomenal.

4% is the improvement in running economy which roughly equates to 2% pace improvement.

juveneur wrote:

These results are getting ridiculous now. Yes the shoes have made a difference but it has to be something else as well. Watch the race the guy is breathing through his nose running 4.15 a mile for 13 miles! Its not so much the pace its that expressionless look. I seriously doubt these results. The only thing i can assume is due to covid these guys are getting a free run at it with very little testing. Yes shoes have changed, diets have changed but i for one am not buying these times.

It does not necessarily spoil your opinion, but in the interest of accuracy, his time is 4:

, not 4:15/mi.

The guy ran 13:24 for 5km as a 15 year old! He's just turned 21. This was before covid and before super shoes. Still can't accept that he's just a phenomenal talent and nothing else? Or are you going to say he must have been taking EPO well and truly before he was 15?

Sorry i remember seeing 4.15 somewhere. It must have been for the first 15k. Was it a 26.47 from 5-15? And again these guys are making it look effortlessly. I personally don't buy it. Anyways it just my opinion. This is not an East African thing. I am equally suspicious of some of western athletes performances. Training methods have not changed much in the last 30 years so we are to believe all these "super" athletes are suddenly just getting born?

Training methods between 1920-1950 changed very little (before Arthur Lydiard's) era and yet as an example the world 5000m record dropped from 14:35 to 13:56, well before any kind of performance enhancing drugs. Would you expect times today for the half or other distances to be the same as they were 30 years ago? What would be an acceptable improvement for you before you would put it down to drugs? Read my earlier post also. Kiplimo ran 13:24 for 5km as a 15 year old. Do you really think they had him doping in the several years before that age?

Yes but up until 5 years ago how often were these records getting broken? 5k, 10k, half, full? And not just broken smashed in a lot of cases. Are you putting that down to just the shoes? Training, diet etc has certainly not changed much over the last 5 years. Keep in mind this generation are the first generation that will no longer outlive the previous generation. Mainly down to diet, climate change etc.. Taking this into account are runners immune to this?

juveneur wrote:

These results are getting ridiculous now. Yes the shoes have made a difference but it has to be something else as well. Watch the race the guy is breathing through his nose running 4.15 a mile for 13 miles! Its not so much the pace its that expressionless look. I seriously doubt these results. The only thing i can assume is due to covid these guys are getting a free run at it with very little testing. Yes shoes have changed, diets have changed but i for one am not buying these times.

Doping is everywhere today and in every sport. But never amongst the fastest runners. Belief in a clean sport is one of the last great illusions. Yet it has so many adherents.

GreatDane1 wrote:

The guy ran 13:24 for 5km as a 15 year old! He's just turned 21. This was before covid and before super shoes. Still can't accept that he's just a phenomenal talent and nothing else? Or are you going to say he must have been taking EPO well and truly before he was 15?

I don't buy that a "15 year-old" genuinely ran 13.24. Either older or doped - or both.

GreatDane1 wrote:

The guy ran 13:24 for 5km as a 15 year old! He's just turned 21. This was before covid and before super shoes. Still can't accept that he's just a phenomenal talent and nothing else? Or are you going to say he must have been taking EPO well and truly before he was 15?

People here claim that the Ingerbrigtsens have been fed HGH since puberty. EPO has been available over the counter in East Africa for decades. Why do you think it unlikely that a '15 year old' (if his age is correct, unsure given the continent) would be capable and willing of taking EPO?

There was a time not so long ago when half the High School boys in America were taking roids. Is it really so inconceivable that teenage runners in Africa might be taking EPO given its availability and cheap cost?

Don't know if this guy is clean, or if Uganda has a great a doping problem as Kenya and likely Ethiopia, but it does seem suspicious that Uganda is developing world beaters just after Kenya (and to a lesser extent Ethiopia) introduces testing and curbs on dodgy European coaches.

Getting his 1500 time under 3:30 w/out sacrificing distance strength is a tricky problem, almost like a gnarly differential equation, but one with a clean training solution. A small handful of coaches--and I'm probably inviting torment when I say this, but a particular inactive, west-coast-based coach included--might have some ideas about how to get the job done.

Armstronglivs wrote:

juveneur wrote:

These results are getting ridiculous now. Yes the shoes have made a difference but it has to be something else as well. Watch the race the guy is breathing through his nose running 4.15 a mile for 13 miles! Its not so much the pace its that expressionless look. I seriously doubt these results. The only thing i can assume is due to covid these guys are getting a free run at it with very little testing. Yes shoes have changed, diets have changed but i for one am not buying these times.

Doping is everywhere today and in every sport. But never amongst the fastest runners. Belief in a clean sport is one of the last great illusions. Yet it has so many adherents.

That always kills me, it's too funny. Everyone says that the top aren't dirty, but if they aren't dirty, how are they beating the guys who are getting popped that are slower than they are? This has to be one of the dirtiest performances in quite awhile.

Armstronglivs wrote:

GreatDane1 wrote:

The guy ran 13:24 for 5km as a 15 year old! He's just turned 21. This was before covid and before super shoes. Still can't accept that he's just a phenomenal talent and nothing else? Or are you going to say he must have been taking EPO well and truly before he was 15?

I don't buy that a "15 year-old" genuinely ran 13.24. Either older or doped - or both.

You don't buy it because you're stupid.

You're welcome.