Who were tougher soldiers in WW2: Germans or Japanese?

cyanide wrote:

The german army was one big "speed" experiment. Google it.

+1.5

Well its on Google it must be totally true

Former runner turned bodybuilder wrote:

The Grumman Wildcat was on par with the Zero at Midway. At the Battle of the Coral Sea about a month before Midway, the Wildcat had the opportunity to engage your mighty Zeros - and Wildcats shot down 14 Zeros for a loss of just 10 aircraft:

A single cherry picked engagement, with no regard to the conditions, numbers, piloting, etc, doesn't tell you which fighter is best. The fact is the American pilots themselves said the F4F wasn't as good. It was a clunky plane with too much heavy stuff on it, and they had to resort to energy tactics and defensive formations.

You could pick far better points to contend with than this. The Zero was the best fighter for the first few years. Losing their best pilots cost Japan the war. Should have been training lots and lots of replacements.

Japanese were extremely cruel with allied prisoners and beheaded many making fellow prisoners watch the spectacle. They were the most sadistic tyrants on earth and there are many books written on the subject that have been forgotten or swamped by the holocaust story.

Pervitin

George Bush(Senior) was very nearly captured by the Japanese, and if his reaction was a bit slower during a certain event, he never would have been president, he would have literally been eaten by the Japanese like the other Americans who were flying with him in the navy. Crazy as it would have been, if he didn't live to have a son, the world would ironically be very different because then 9 11 would never have happened, the Iraq war and probably the worldwide depression from 2008(which mainly started from the US).

This is correct.

The F4F was not a great plane, but it wasn't horrible. It just wasn't as good as the Zero. The only thing they had going for it was the Thatch Weave, where they'd use two F4Fs to take out a Zero (and it only worked in a few cases).

I also think Spruance outfoxed Yamamoto. Spruance was an introvert but was, IMO, better than all US Admirals other than maybe Nimitz. Halsey = blowhard.

The Roosevelts pocketed a Fortune on Opium Trade wrote:

2 The US used Napalm, Chemical Weapons, Atomic Weapons on Asians in the 1800's

And the US also used B-2 bombers against the Confederacy in the Civil War and Abrams Tanks to defeat the British at Yorktown.

Wow, Liberals must be the stupidest, least-educated people on Earth. No wonder they voted for Biden over Trump.

Wolf's lair wrote:

Both German and Japanese soldiers fought in absolute atrocious conditions, conditions that many soldiers in the armies of today would mutiny over. This is most likely due to ideology and general toughness. The Germans had to protect Europe from Communism that was their drive.

The Japanese I'm not too sure on, the pacific theatre is something I'm not too knowledgeable on. I don't want to quote history channel rubbish because I only use reliable sources.

What was the Japanese motivation that achieved such bravery in the battlefield?

Neither! The average 5’7” 145 lb Americans were. As proof of their total victory against both of these so called toughest militaries!

This is a wild thread.

I have no evidence, but it's my belief that the Japanese were the toughest fighters. And though they lost the war, then, they've won it since.

Why did the kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

runnerboy70 wrote:

Why did the kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

LOL! Good question.

The best soldiers were Americans. They fought because they knew the war couldn't be lost. The Soviets fought to the death because the NKVD kill retreating soldiers. The Allies including Soviets could only survive because of Lend Lease.

The Germans and Japanese were not as well trained as American and our Allies were. An example. Your average German or Japanese soldier could not read a battle field map. They weren't trained to. So when their officers were killed they were left clueless. A private in the American military was and could fight and advance without orders.

Some posts want to take umbrage with American and British carpet bombing of Germany and Japan. However the Germans and Japanese were the first to do this so we just followed their example. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap you reap the whirwind."

As an aside, from the civil war going back hundreds of years armies tried avoiding fighting in cities. Rather they looked for the best open ground for battle. Hence the term battle field instead of battle city.

Asians won the ground battles in the long run finishing off the last American invasions in 1975 with the defeat of the United States armies in Vietnam. Asian policy is the sacrifice 10 soldiers to enable 1 soldier to get wining 30 meters of a invading European/American. Then it's a fair fight. That strategy worlds. Asia is free today from European/American imperialists. Victory is Sweet!

Victory is Sweet! wrote:

Asians won the ground battles in the long run finishing off the last American invasions in 1975 with the defeat of the United States armies in Vietnam. Asian policy is the sacrifice 10 soldiers to enable 1 soldier to get wining 30 meters of a invading European/American. Then it's a fair fight. That strategy worlds. Asia is free today from European/American imperialists. Victory is Sweet!

More accurate to consider what U.S. military did in Korea, Viet Nam and Afghanistan as Tactical Retreats. Defeated is a bit of hyperbole. There is a fighting spirit, U.S. men 100 miles each side of Mississippi River. No nation to date has over run the men along Mississippi River.

Germany had superior weaponry and organization on the ground, as well as to some extent in the air. They made a lot of tactical and strategic errors and did not develop and move forward with many of their most advanced weapon systems. They also lost many of their best scientists because of their genocidal anti-Semitism. They diverted enormous resources to the Holocaust. But when you're looking at a land war, the Germans had tremendous commanders and tanks, which allowed an incredibly swift conquest of most of Europe, as well as an incredibly bloody fight against the Soviets, who ultimately defeated them, albeit with lend-lease help from the U.S., as well as, ultimately, the emergence of the Western front.

These are far-out weapons, mostly not deployed.

The Landkreuzer P1500 Monster, a rail gun with an 800mm gun. Never built.

The JU 322 Flying Wing

The Sun Gun, a 3.5 sq mile metallic sodium sun reflector in space

Arodo, Komet, Schwalbe (ME262 jet--300 used in combat), two jets and a rocket-fueled plane

Vampir night vision infrared sights

the Fieseler FI 103r kamikaze bomb plane

FL 282 helicopter

The Vortex Cannon

The X-4 air to air missile

These weapons were key to their actual war efforts:

The 88mm anti-aircraft, anti-tank gun

The MG42 could fire up to 1500 rounds per minute with a 1k range--408,000 were produced

The Panzerkampfwagen III and IV, the main German tanks, and the mighty VI, 54 tons with an 88 mm gun and thick armor (the Leopard was much bigger but got stuck a lot and couldn't fire sideways)

The Messerschmidt BF109, 33,000 produced, two .51 caliber heavy machine guns, used everywhere

The U-Boat, sunk 2,779 allied ships, while losing 765 U-Boats

The Panzerfaust Anti-tank weapon, a short range, simple to operate last ditch tank destroyer, effective at 30y.

Seems like the WINNERS need to be considered the toughest. The United States crushed both Germany and Japan in WW2, forcing both to surrender unconditionally. We could have annexed Japan when the war was over if we wanted to and there was nothing they could have done about it but instead, in typical American fashion, we gave them their country back and even used our economic superiority to rebuilt them.

The US then followed these victories by completely decimating the combined North Korean/Chinese army a couple years later. Nearly pushed the Koreans into China. The Chinese tried a Pearl Harbor-like sneak attack and despite this sucker punch, the US drove the Chinese out of South Korea and back across the original border. China/North Korea did not gain an inch of ground despite their aim being to completely take over South Korea. And again, in typical American fashion, we did not try to take over any of the Korean Peninsula.

And then a decade later we completely annihilated the North Vietnamese Army, killing between 650,000 and 850,000 while only losing less than 60,000. Bombed them into submission in December '72 and forced them to crawl to the negotiation table and sign a peace agreement that they swore to never accept. They lacked the fighting spirit of the Japanese and surrendered instead of fighting to the death. After defeating the North Vietnamese Army, the victorious US Army left without attempting to take over any land in Southeast Asia, same as the morally superior United States has always done.

The US has thus far kept up their undefeated streak against Asian powers, having already defeated Japan, North Korea, China, and North Vietnam. Southeast Asian nations have learned their lesson - they cannot defeat the US and will never try to challenge the superior military forces of the United States ever again.

Former runner turned bodybuilder wrote:

Without a doubt the Japanese.

The Battle of Okinawa was the bloodiest battle of the Pacific compaign. 82 days of brutal fighting that left the U.S. was tremendous casualties despite outnumbering the Japanese Imperial Army by almost 3-1.

https://www.google.com/search?q=battle+of+Okinawa+&biw=692&bih=288&sxsrf=AOaemvKPo7YrxJYVLeWPlXD71ZfFwkGEtg%3A1634681739748&ei=i0NvYcP1LOGnqtsP5-KtwAw&oq=battle+of+Okinawa+&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQguEIAEMgUIABCABDIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDoHCCMQ6gIQJzoECCMQJzoFCAAQkQI6BQguEJECOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToICC4QsQMQgwE6BAgAEEM6BAguEEM6EAguEIAEEIcCEMcBEKMCEBQ6DgguEIAEELEDEMcBEKMCOggILhCABBCxAzoKCAAQgAQQhwIQFDoICAAQsQMQgwE6CAgAEIAEELEDUPuLKVj3uilgu8ApaAJwAHgAgAHOAYgB2Q2SAQYxLjEwLjKYAQCgAQGwAQ_AAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

In conclusion, what country did we drop not only one but two Atomic bombs before surrendering?

What country received a conditional surrender?

If you answered Japan - you're spot on! 👍

Yes, The Allied forces outnumbered the Japanese. The results:

US soldiers: 12,520 soldiers killed

Japanese: 110,000 soldiers killed

All of the above is correct. Fun fact: The US used the AIM-4 Falcon AAM missile early on in the '50s, which was based on the German AAM you mentioned.

The Me-262 was a great jet and more than a match for the P-51 Mustang, which itself was a good competitor to the Fw-190.

Germany historically has always had the best army (WW2 and prior), top to bottom. Leadership, rank and file, discipline, tactics, strategy, logistics, etc.

Japan had the most brainwashed soldiers. Never surrender. Die before surrender. That was the culture. That's why we had to drop two freaking nukes on them before they gave up. Damn!