Sub-elite men trying to race elite women at the end of a road race is the worst. (from David Monti @d9monti)

Disko Eric wrote:

Huh? They were meters apart. And that was hardly a sprint finish. Even by marathon standards. Look up Boston 2019 or Dubai 2018 finish. You guys sure do have a weird point of view. Paula says she raced the men and didn’t see them as pacers. Y’all are starting something from nothing.

But I guess to answer you, If you’re not racing then don’t sign up for a race.

Yes, another social media person trying to make something out of nothing. How bizzare is David Monti to say that?

What???????????????????? wrote:

Disko Eric wrote:

Huh? They were meters apart. And that was hardly a sprint finish. Even by marathon standards. Look up Boston 2019 or Dubai 2018 finish. You guys sure do have a weird point of view. Paula says she raced the men and didn’t see them as pacers. Y’all are starting something from nothing.

But I guess to answer you, If you’re not racing then don’t sign up for a race.

Yes, another social media person trying to make something out of nothing. How bizzare is David Monti to say that?

Deena Kastor, who fits the actual definition of "elite woman" unlike Monty or Emmy, had the best response to that bait tweet:

Looks like Deena never let anyone steal her shine, she's basically saying this is a whole lot of nothing and competitors are there to help you level-up if you want it.

DietBacon wrote:

David doesn’t seem to mention Shalane at all. He posted his Twitter before shalane finished, in fact.

Then he probably meant the finish of Rabea Schöneborn.

There are extra finishing tapes for first German male and female and some guy tried his hardest to finish ahead of her and only veered off maybe 5 meters before the tape.

This is the ultimate made up controversy.

The guy wasn't even running directly next to her. WTF was he supposed to do differently?

Majority of men don't want to be chicked. Nothing wrong with that(it's a pride thing) and the top women use men in racing all the time to get a faster time. Like who hasn't had a unknown chick tuck right behind you during a race?

Timeline of events wrote:

This is the ultimate made up controversy.

The guy wasn't even running directly next to her. WTF was he supposed to do differently?

trollin' along wrote:

Burritos and Beers wrote:

Only time where I've seen it as offensive is when a dude broke the tape that was being held for the first female. Such a dick move.

Disko Eric wrote:

That actually just recently happened. What race was that? It was on TV. I don’t think it was a marathon though. Maybe it was July 4 race in Atlanta.

Glass City Marathon. I love it when she calls him an @SShole at the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUzFVc8VNAY

When I was 18, I let the women winner of 10K finish ahead of me. When I was 49, I did not let the women winner of 10K finish ahead of me. I let the woman finish ahead of me when I was 18 because I would have had to throw an elbow. I was not going to do that. At 49, the finish was wide enough. I have two adult daughters. If they are in better shape and beat me fine, if I am in better shape, I do not let my daughters beat me, I am not letting anyone beat me if I can beat them and be reasonable.

trollin' along wrote:

Burritos and Beers wrote:

Only time where I've seen it as offensive is when a dude broke the tape that was being held for the first female. Such a dick move.

Disko Eric wrote:

That actually just recently happened. What race was that? It was on TV. I don’t think it was a marathon though. Maybe it was July 4 race in Atlanta.

Glass City Marathon. I love it when she calls him an @SShole at the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUzFVc8VNAY

They coned off the other side of the line for the shorter distance finishers you can see jogging in, so the tape holders blocked the entire finishing lane. Not the dude's fault. Finish tape is kind of lame anyway. Just another opportunity to put a sponsor's name in a picture.

4214125running wrote:

Cuz a woman running 2:44 is about as good as a man running 2:20

The way I see it the clock runs the same speed for men and women. A 2:44 marathon is a 2:44 marathon regardless of the gender of the person running it. The same applies to a 2:20 marathon.

one of my friends outkicked Mary Cain in a race almost a couple years ago. Said it was his crowing achievement. (It was a track race tho)

Precious Roy wrote:

There is a real issue with men who run with the elite women's pack during races where the elite women start with the rest of the field. That is not cool. But at the end of the race, everyone gets to kick it in and no one should have to hold back just because they are in proximity to an elite runner.

There shouldn't be an issue. Especially as the elite women are being given a ton of appearance money and prize money compared with the runners who are running just as fast as they are. If people are starting on the same starting line then they should be allowed to race as they want as long as it doesn't involve physically impeding the other competitors. Ideally gender/age categories should not exist in races and runners should be classified as elite or not regardless of their gender.

If race organizers really want gender or masters races then they should organize entirely separate women's and masters races.

Then elite woman should not get paced by men.

Star wrote:

It's not a good look to either outsprint or be out sprinted by a woman right at the end of a race.

Make the move early or back off.

Oh Yeah yee Haw. We can't have no dang feee maylz doing darn races now can we. Who's gonna rustle up dem dinners after we done racin'?

Those women probably don't want no mid 40's weekend warrior with beer belly getting in their way anyway, so yeah stay away from them dude.

finisher69 wrote:

trollin' along wrote:

Glass City Marathon. I love it when she calls him an @SShole at the finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUzFVc8VNAY

They coned off the other side of the line for the shorter distance finishers you can see jogging in, so the tape holders blocked the entire finishing lane. Not the dude's fault. Finish tape is kind of lame anyway. Just another opportunity to put a sponsor's name in a picture.

+1

An example of what's been said previously; RD not having enough room at the finish for the first female tape breaker and other runners to finish, and in this case the runners in a different race distance, same finish line.

I agree with those that have said a race is a race, you race all bodies to the line but don't break the females' tape unless it blocks the whole road.

OriginalLurker wrote:

DietBacon wrote:

David doesn’t seem to mention Shalane at all. He posted his Twitter before shalane finished, in fact.

Then he probably meant the finish of Rabea Schöneborn.

There are extra finishing tapes for first German male and female and some guy tried his hardest to finish ahead of her and only veered off maybe 5 meters before the tape.

I put a note under the first post. The topic of sub-elite men racing elite women is worth having but Monti wasn't referring to Shalane Flanagan's race in Berlin when he made it. He made the tweet 7 or 8 minutes before Flanagan was finishing and she wasn't shown on the broadcast when we were watching it.

I think this whole thing is another example of where people think it's automatically racist of sexist when it's not necessarily the case. I mean one year I was running a 10 mile race. And I was right next to Bill Rodgers for almost all of it. He was setting some sort of 10 mile 50+ WR. I remember thinking as we got to like mile 9 that I'd either better beat him by a lot or lose to him by a lot as I didn't want to be near the finishing photo.

I don't even remember who won but I know I wasn't close to him.

Is there anyway to figure out what record bill rodgers set for 10 miles or the half in like 1999 or 2000?

I tend to agree with the premise of this but the video doesn't really seem to fit the pattern. If you're a 2:38 guy or a 2:38 woman, you're at very different levels of the sport. In a race like Berlin, who knows where people started around you so you're fighting for unknown time/place at the finish. I think a guy shouldn't sit on an elite woman & try to out kick her in the last 100. I think a guy shouldn't get in the finish line shot of an elite woman or break their tape kind of a thing. Looked like that guy was just kicking and finished way on the other side. Also who wouldn't be trying to finish right with someone recognizable like Shalane Flanagan?

I think everyone comes into this sport for their own reasons and with varying levels of talent. Some guys tap out at sub-2:40. Some never break 3. As long as you're respectful and don't steal the thunder of the women around you I think you should feel good about pushing as hard as you can to the finish I think the line is a thin one tho. I don't think the guy in Berlin crossed it.

Want to add, too, that I think the initial tweets were more/less about the last few seconds of a race & about proper etiquette. Nobody is telling sub-elite men not to race flat-out. It's about being aware of your surroundings & not breaking the tape (or one stepping or out-leaning) of a woman on their way to a NR, PB, life changing kind of mark. That seems totally fair and, even if you don't agree, we can do better than to name call (or worse) women for calling attention to this type of a scenario. LRC needs to be able to have these discussions without making people, especially women, feel horrible all the damn time. Chill out if you're contributing to that.

I think elite women having their own start/finish can help with everything being discussed here. I feel like everyone handled themselves reasonably well in the video that I saw. Maybe there was something with the actual winner of the women's race or someone in the top-3 or 5. Idk. Seemed like the men were being instructed to finish on the left and the women on the right, which is good. Boston has you finish on separate sides. I can see a race like Chicago causing issues because everyone starts/finishes together.