Hockers 6th place is more impressive than Centros gold

Some here were predicting sub 3:30 for Hocker - clearly wishful thinking.

Back to back PBs ands 3:31.4 show a lot of promise.

But…

Centro’s PB is a full second better than Hocker.

He was a top-tier for over a half decade.

While 2016 was a weird race, a win’s a win. Oly Gold trumps 6th every time.

NUTS to be crowning Hocker as America’s 1500 GOAT

Kobbs Hessler wrote:

"Olympic Champion" ends all debate. That said, Hocker ran amazingly well and showed us that his potential is unlimited. Extremely happy for him.

He's a dumb antivaxxer. He will be forgotten in a few years.

Ernest wrote:

Some here were predicting sub 3:30 for Hocker - clearly wishful thinking.

Back to back PBs ands 3:31.4 show a lot of promise.

But…

Centro’s PB is a full second better than Hocker.

He was a top-tier for over a half decade.

While 2016 was a weird race, a win’s a win. Oly Gold trumps 6th every time.

NUTS to be crowning Hocker as America’s 1500 GOAT

hes not the 1500 goat now obviously, but he is the present and future of the 1500 in america (and that was obvious before the trials). he has a ways to go, but off to an unrivaled start (as far as US men go).

Mostly good thoughts, but the post didn't answer the questions that were asked.

also fwiw i doubt cole is an anti-vaxxer. if he got covid late spring (before the vaccine wouldve been available to him) then it isnt that crazy to opt to not get it in the subsequent months given his busy racing schedule and the possibility that the second shot will likely knock you out for a few days. now that the season is over tho hopefully he opts to get it. if he doesnt then yea...def not a fan of that decision.

I’m the one who started this thread, and I never claimed he was/is the American mile goat. What I said was that hockers performance is MORE IMPRESSIVE than Centros.

I also never said:

1) gold is worse than 6th/6th is better than gold. That is idiotic and untrue.

2) Hocker is better than Centro. Centro has the credentials Hocker (currently) does not.

3) Centros medal is somehow worthless because it was a sit and kick race. It’s incredible he got that medal and it can never be taken from him.

What I AM saying is that when you don’t look at the races in a vacuum and eliminate the blanket “gold >>>>>> 6th” mentality, it becomes a much more interesting conversation, and I believe the overall performance is better. Considering every possible factor, including:

age (Centro was 27 in 2016, Hocker 20 in 2021)

experience on the global stage (Centros at least third international final, Hockers first)

PRs (Centro had run much faster going into 2016 games than Hocker had going into these)

We can now see that Hockers 6th place in 3:31 is at least as impressive, if not more so, than Centros gold.

No, we cannot see that. There is no scenario that exists where Hocker's SIXTH place finish and TOTAL IRRELEVANCE in that race is more impressive than Centros gold. You get that right? GO back and watch at 1200 meters and Hocker isn't even in the camera frame and it's a decently wide shot. He had to nearly kill himself to go from 10th to 6th.

This is easy. Shocker had the better race. Centro had the better result. I think Centro is a tool that punches down to online trolls which just makes him a troll but on the day he best the competition.

It's like a win on Sunday against the worst team in the NFL. You can only beat the team, or runners, you are up against.

Agreed bro.

You're the one who is looking at races in a vacuum. You are stripping away all of the circumstances surrounding Centro's performanc. You are boiling it down to time 3:31 is more impressive than 3:50. That's where your argument lies. Times in a vacuum. Are you being intentionally obtuse or do you not really understand what you are saying?

6/10. I can’t believe people are biting on this though.

No. Looking at it in a vacuum would be saying, “Centro gold, Hocker 6th, Centro better!!!”

I am looking at every possible angle and factor here, including age, experience, expectation, prior PRs, etc, which all combine to show that the PERFORMANCE was on par if not better.

A lot of people misconstruing what I’m saying here. Read it again if you need to.

Correct. Arete has to be trolling. These comparisons 😂😂

hdjehdh wrote:

This is easy. Shocker had the better race. Centro had the better result. I think Centro is a tool that punches down to online trolls which just makes him a troll but on the day he best the competition.

It's like a win on Sunday against the worst team in the NFL. You can only beat the team, or runners, you are up against.

Wrong! Centro had the better race AND the better result. In a race 1st is always better than 6th. In the Olympics Gold is always a better result than no medal. This isn't hard.

First off, I think we all got trolled, HARD.

But Arete, you are really struggling with comparisons here. The accurate comparison would be:

A - Win the California state meet mile in a time of 4:30, but closing the last 800 in 1:51 (over 10 other guys who have run under 4:15, including 2 guys who have run under 4:00)

B - Get 6th in the California state meet running 4:06, while the winner sets the state record and leaves you and the others well behind.

****************

The more accurate comparison:

Which is the more impressive performance?

Your A example or a

B example of a freshman who gets 6th at the state meet and breaks the state record of 4:06?

missBS wrote:

No. Looking at it in a vacuum would be saying, “Centro gold, Hocker 6th, Centro better!!!”

I am looking at every possible angle and factor here, including age, experience, expectation, prior PRs, etc, which all combine to show that the PERFORMANCE was on par if not better.

A lot of people misconstruing what I’m saying here. Read it again if you need to.

You're looking at every possible angle except the one that lines up with reality. One guys performance resulted in a Olympic Gold Medal, the pinnacle of the sport, the thing that they are all striving for. The other guys performance resulted in 6th place, no medal, he goes home empty handed. It's not a better performance. Never will be. Sorry this is so tough for you to swallow.

Again, you fail to even consider anything that I outlined. As someone else said, not sure if you’re being intentionally obtuse or if you simply don’t know what you’re talking about.

Perhaps one day you will realize what I’m talking about, but I doubt it.

they tried to catch him, they failed wrote:

my 2c wrote:

This is both dumb and ignorant. Centro didn't sit and kick. He led wire to wire, defended his position against all challenges, and outkicked everyone for the win. It was absolute tactical brilliance. Do you really know so little about the 2016 Olympics that you don't even know how the race unfolded? Please, stop posting.

This.

+1. Centro controlled the race start to finish, ran from the front wire-to-wire. Who cares if it wasn't fast? -- anyone else could've tried to take the lead and speed it up (and Kiprop and Souleiman both did), but Centro surged to hold the lead every time.

Also, ffs stop pretending the 2016 final had a bunch of nobodies. The field had the previous two olympic 1500m winners, 5 sub-3:30 guys, and American hair legend Ben Blankenship.

"adflkj;laac.hoo" is already forgotten

- Nostradamus