The last clean T & F world record and last clean Tour de France winner?

longjack wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

Shaheen not only didn't take any illegal substance, but was an athlete going "bread and water" only : never some vitamin, never some supplement, never some medicine.

Great talent, big focus in training and ecceptional continuity.

I said a lot of time that for speaking you need :

1) To have the interest for searching right informations

2) To find right informations

3) To use those informations.

If you don't want to inform yourself in a correct way, you can only write stupidities, and showing that are an idiot.

Something that punctually happens.

so glad you brave letsrun, with so many idiots making claims based on nothing.

+1

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""""""--^' wrote:

unknown sprinters wrote:

Wayde Van Niekerk

Watch the way he finished the 400m Olympic WR after the way he ran the first 300m. Watch his competitors. That's not natural. No way in hell.

What about him collapsing and going to hospital after the 2015 WC?

Natural enough?

Does nobody think Cadel Evens may have been clean?

Well, we know it wasn’t Joanie. That whole Athletics West crew was dirtier than the Postal Service team.

Mainahhh wrote:

Well, we know it wasn’t Joanie. That whole Athletics West crew was dirtier than the Postal Service team.

You wanna provide evidence here, buddy, or do we just have to take your word for it?

if there was any evidence lemond cheated, LA would have found it and published it. especially after the whole operation was exposed. LA would have loved to drag lemond down with him

I would be relatively confident Evans is clean as well.

bredgana wrote:

I think it's fairly well accepted that Carlos Sastre (winner of the Tour in 2008) was a clean rider - he's never been implicated in any doping scandal of any kind and has a squeaky clean reputation. I also reckon Geraint Thomas was clean too but maybe that's just wishful supportiveness

Well...that's true there isn't any direct or circumstantial evidence against Sastre. However, the top 8 finishers were full of dopers including the DQ of the 3rd place finisher, Bernard Kohl, for doping. Here's a look at the rest:

3. Menchov (confirmed doper)

4. Vande Velde (confirmed doper)

5. Schleck (suspicious with ties to Fuentes)

6. Sanchez (served a ban for a tainted supp)

7. Kitchen

8. Valverde (confirmed doper).

bredgana wrote:

On the track, other than Oregon Project style abuse or line stretching, I reckon most world records are clean - they're just run by exceptional athletes

I tend to think this too. We’ve been in the modern era for a while now, it’s been 40 years since Coe ran 1:41.73. It’s not crazy to me that the WR has advanced to 1:40.91 after all this time, it’s not even a full second.

Same with the 400, Butch Reynolds ran 43.29 in 1988. 33 years the WR is 0.26 seconds faster, that sounds entirely reasonable.

Of course some records seem more suspect than others. El G’s 1500 WR is now 23 years old. So either we need to believe he was several generations ahead of his time or it points to him being dirty.

juvie wrote:

I choose to believe Lemond was clean. Lemond was naive and idealistic and far too outspoken. Too big a risk for anyone to offer to dope him up. He was also an outsider in the bike racing scene in general, and also specifically within his team which had a distinct bias to Hinault. The team was happy enough having lemond be a super domestique. Why dope him up and make him an even bigger threat to Hinault?

Choose what you like.

There has always been drugs used in cycling.

Since 2004, WADA has monitored the proportion of urine samples with a caffeine concentration of over 6 μg/mL in order to monitor the use of high doses that could be harmful for athletes, although the data are not public.

Just because a drug is legal, does not mean a performance with a legal drug makes a rider clean. You are talking purely weasel lawyer terms. And I do love Lemond.

The last one to win clean in my view is Cadel Evans. And yeah he visited ferrari pre moving from MTN biking to Road. But just to do an assessment. I suspect that will taint some minds. Like Bolt rode the bus to the meet with a doper, so he must be a doper.

perhaps this is naïve but i kinda trust the biological passport thing that they do in cycling and in track? like maybe i'm stupid but i feel like chances are pretty good that wr holders and especially tdf guys would get caught.

and like most people said, cheating in cycling has been around for way longer than lemond, there was a guy in the 50s or 60s in the tour who died of an amphetamine overdose during a stage, so i def wouldn't trust anything from like 1950-2010ish?

so i suppose my naïve answer is tadej pogacar haha

Runner10287 wrote:

Dude you gotta find a better translator. Please.

Renato doesn't need a translator. Everyone understands him just fine.. Hes the real deal..Could you imagine the translation nightmare if a guy like Harry Groves ever posted here? Oy vey.

Drugs have always been a part of professional

sports. Strychnine was used in the early 20th century. Amphetamines were around. Steroids were available starting at least by the 50s.

The more you look into it the more you realize for as long as there has been professional sports there has been athletes and managers willing to take drugs to win, even if a naive athlete didn't even know it.

Blood doping through transfusion wasn't made illegal until 1986.

Alan

I am almost certain there are designer steroids still out there like the old "Clear".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrogestrinone

As long as your T:E ratio remains under the threshold there is no way to get caught.

Out of competition testing is really the thing that keeps the drugs in check.

Alan

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""""""--^' wrote:

unknown sprinters wrote:

Wayde Van Niekerk

Watch the way he finished the 400m Olympic WR after the way he ran the first 300m. Watch his competitors. That's not natural. No way in hell.

It’s because he was faster than them. The first 300 had taken less out of him.

Look up “speed reserve”.

I think the odds of LeMond being clean are even lower than the odds of Bolt being clean, which I think is close to zero. I don't know enough about cycling to have any idea when the last clean winner would be. For track and field, I'd like to think at least one of the current world records is clean, but it's hard to say which one. I just don't think it's one of the sprints. It's also very possible that even this is fairly naïve and literally all of the world records are dirty.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Drugs have always been a part of professional

sports. Strychnine was used in the early 20th century. Amphetamines were around. Steroids were available starting at least by the 50s.

The more you look into it the more you realize for as long as there has been professional sports there has been athletes and managers willing to take drugs to win, even if a naive athlete didn't even know it.

Blood doping through transfusion wasn't made illegal until 1986.

Alan

Athletics wasn't professional until the late 80's.

Runningart2004 wrote:

I am almost certain there are designer steroids still out there like the old "Clear".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrogestrinone

As long as your T:E ratio remains under the threshold there is no way to get caught.

Out of competition testing is really the thing that keeps the drugs in check.

Alan

Not quite true. They can run CIR tests on samples where the T:E ratio is below 4:1.

But is there a synthetic T with the correct ratios available ?

davies report wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

I am almost certain there are designer steroids still out there like the old "Clear".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrogestrinone

As long as your T:E ratio remains under the threshold there is no way to get caught.

Out of competition testing is really the thing that keeps the drugs in check.

Alan

Not quite true. They can run CIR tests on samples where the T:E ratio is below 4:1.

But is there a synthetic T with the correct ratios available ?

I would imagine if it can be created it has been created. Imagine the money you would make.

Someone had to pick up where BALCO left off.

The only ones who really want to pop athletes are the crusaders at WADA. You really think Nike or the various sports governing bodies care? Win and set records. Throw more touchdowns. Etc etc. just don't get caught. Wear our gear. Represent our governing body. Make us more money. Even with WADA. You think a sample collector can't be bought?

There is is just far too much fame and fortune to be made from athlete to manager to sponsor to think anyone in the upper echelon is remotely clean.

Just wash your hands of it and move on. Track and Cycling are really the only sports who care or pretend to care about doping.

Alan