Congrats to Boling: destroys 200 field - 20.19!!

Andrew Rock was a 200/400 guy who won gold in the 4x4 in Athens and silver in 2005 400.

The fastest white 100m man runs a 9.92 he also ran a 19.80 200m, there is no debate which is the superior time.

Right now Boling is 10.11, 20.19, once again no debate over which is the superior time.

When the Olympic trials get here Boling with be more competitive in that 200 if he tries both and he really shouldn't. But all his energies into his best event the 200m.

Rock started out a hurdler, long jumper, 200m, he would evolve into pretty much just a 400m man,

Whatley wrote:

The fastest white 100m man runs a 9.92 he also ran a 19.80 200m, there is no debate which is the superior time.

Right now Boling is 10.11, 20.19, once again no debate over which is the superior time.

When the Olympic trials get here Boling with be more competitive in that 200 if he tries both and he really shouldn't. But all his energies into his best event the 200m.

Boling went 10.14 in "basic" his senior year of high school. He went 20.31 i to -0.8 that same year over 200. Those two runs are actually a push to each other, and do not imply an overtly more skilled ability over one distance to the other. Point in fact, with how "new" he was to the 100, it could be argued the implication was he may well have more inherent talent over 100 meters. Either way, you can't look at 10.14/20.3x and outright say "oh, he's better over 200".

This is why your argument is flawed, Whatley. You're always skeweing things to the benefit only to your argument. We don't HAVE any 100m data for Boling since his senior softball HS due to Covid.

You're comparing his recent indoor 20.19 to his HS senior year 100m results. That's....that's CLEARLY disingenuous.

All we DO we have is 60m results (and even in his successful HS 100s where he was going 10.1x, we could see that the first 30 to 60 meters was not his strength), and now this 20.19 indoor 200m dash PR. Comparing his indoor 200m PR to his two year old 100m dash abilities back when he was maxing out at low 20.3s on OUTDOOR tracks does not work.

Listen, if he's still only managing 10.1x in basic this year over 100, then you've got a point. But a 20.19 indoor 200, and improvement over 60 meters in his results over the past two years, implies that we'll likely see GROSS improvement over his 100 meters abilities from his HS senior year.

How much improvement? That's an open question. Clearly his start and acceleration holds him back in concept, but the same could be said for Carl Lewis or Tyson Gay or even Bolt. But they made up for it, or refined their start so it was less of a liability over time, or some combination of the two, and thusly succeeded.

There's an argument that Boling may well still prove to have a huge ceiling over 100 meters. I've been disappointed in his 60 meter progress, so I'm a little less optimistic...but I'll tell you what. How he handles what Micah William's bring to the table will be interesting and telling.

ULTIMATLEY, the point is, we DON'T actually KNOW yet. This outdoor season will say a lot, assuming he stays healthy. To hear you tell it, Whatley, he shouldn't even bother trying. What will be your take if he can run down Micah William's in the last 20/30 meters for an outdoor 100m title? Not saying he can or will, or if someone else will even be there to best BOTH of them, but he should take the opportunity seriously and should be training to allow that to happen IF it can happen.

paris2024hawk wrote:

Personally I don't think race is the determining factor for what your best event but, boling seems to be a 200m guy you can realistically see him running 19.8 but some say he won't break 10, and is very hard but not impossible to run sub ten as a 6.64 60m guy.

Also 19.9 will likely get 4rth or 5th and 10.05 will likely get 7-8th

I largely agree with you.

To me, Boling will for sure be capable of sub 10 down the road as he develops. That's 6.64 is obviously not his 60m ceiling. Maybe he can even break 10 legally this year depending on weather conditions and situations. That could well be a stretch, though...it just depends.

Assuming Lyles, Baker, and Bromell are all mostly healthy and primed, and then maybe even a Gatlin....then yeah, Boling will be scrapping by to just get into a 7th/8th position. BUT, there's a lot of question with all four of those guys. At this stage, all four of them might not even be there to run for all we know (I question Lyles because he's still been so unclear about his commitments to the 100; if he runs it at all he'd be above Boling obviously, and Bromell LOOKS like he's back and he's be above Boling for sure). That wild scenario of those 4 out instantly puts him 7th/8th to 3rd/4th.

But, you're right, it's a good bet to think all four of them are there and pretty functional as sprinters. It's just such a huge unknown right now. Plus there are others, of course.

But, you are losing the debate when you criticize Whatley using Boling's past 100m in comparison to his current 200m when you cite his recent 6.64. His 200 is FAR better than his recent 6.64.

Also, the debate was about historic global success by white sprinters in the 100 vs 200. We all know what the facts are.

Look, I saw Boling in 2015 when he was youngster competing at River Oaks Baptist School in Houston. I said it then, "this kid is going to be really good at something". You could see it in his bodytype, the sharp face, and his results. The kid is a freak. I believe in him as much as anybody, and it would be awesome to see him be the greatest white sprinter we've ever seen, and if it is 9.8, awesome... if it's 19.mid, awesome.

Again, the highest level of global success by white sprinters in the past 50 years, is in the 200m. Fact.

I think he will. He doesn't seem as confident or comfortable on the indoor banks as he does outdoors. So I think he's looking good for a strong outdoor campaign. But I'm a distance guy so, I'm not really an expert here. Now Teare and Hocker, I can assuredly say they are primed for an awesome outdoor season

At first I was like everyone else......this kid is a sub10,00 in waiting, Then I sw him come from back on a 4x4 leg, split a sizzlin' 44.7 right then and there.....200m man! And he has done nothing to chamge my mind. He has 100mspeed and 400m strength, yep....200mis where he will find his success.

Never have bought into that "basic" things, I mean....

Coach...so what did ya run at Baker HS

Kid.....10.65

Coach ....says here 10.78,

Kid.....talking basic

Track surfaces, altitude, level of competition, temperature are all factors when it comes to times not just wind. I go with what was actually ran, do ignore windy times.

Is there some reason you are battling this so hard, there is no debate at all that white sprinters have been more successful at 200m, that is a fact, so why fight it?

You got it my friend, just look at medals won, world rankings, quality times, and it's the 200m.

Whatley wrote:

You got it my friend, just look at medals won, world rankings, quality times, and it's the 200m.

I vehemently disagree with the core basis of your argument, because I find it build on bias and flawed logic.

You cited all this history bologna but up until '64 white guys were having as much success over 100m as 200 meters (like a Bobby Morrow, who you don't like to cite much because he doesn't support your views). What happened? Something in the water since the 60s targets white men to become impotent below 100 meters? Bologna.

I'm fighting it hard because, honestly, your viewpoint is dangerous. And it's wrong. And I have personal experience with how it can negatively impact a life.

Bobby Morrow ran the 10,2 WR three times, he ran the 20,6 WR three times, he twice won our 100m nationals, he took a first and two 4ths in the 200m, and in his last years after 56 he was more 200m. With Morrow he was about the same in both, so he doesn't really fit my 200m trip.

Why are you ignoring the facts, I showed you the world rankings, the quality times, the medals won, yep, 200m rules.

We just saw TV delay Boling run a 45.3ish 400m split giving Ga the lead, this is who this kid is, he is a "long sprinter" and it should be real obvious if you understand the sport.

If you have some personal agenda with this, sorry but I have this thing about how things really are.

When Boling is obviously a 200m man who runs some 100m, we'll talk some more.

Look, the semantics of the debate are skewed in every direction anyone wants to go. Heres my problem: talented young white sprinter shows up and you get a guy like whatley in control of him. Maybe the kids destiny would be to run a 9.88 for bronze at an Olympics, but Whatley yammers on and on that he should just run the 200 "because history proves", and then shoves the appropriate training down the kids throat that minimizes 100m development. Then the kid misses the boat on his 100 meter potential trying hammer himself out as a 200m specialist, and maybe his skill set was never terribly well suited to the 200. But...as a white guy....I guess that's just the way it rolls because Whatley and his skewed history lessons say so?

I'm not losing anything citing Bolings 6.64 60 meter dash this year. I'm trying to be intellectually honest with all the facts, and I'm not trying to run away from the data that doesn't comfortably fit into my thesis. That 6.64 is a lesser result than his 20.19. Yes. But there MAY be more context on that.

Boling also ran 10.14 basic two years ago, when he maxed out at 20.31 OUTDOORS over 200 meters. AND he had NO official 60 meter dash results from that time period.

LAST YEAR (one year removed from his 10.14 basic abilities) he ran a 6.68 best over 60 meters. So he improved this year from last year. And frankly the 60 wasn't his priority this year. He OPENED with that 6.64. You gotta figure there were likely some more hundredths to lose just by happenstance for Boling if he was gunning for it more instead of also doing LJ. It shouldn't be lost on anyone that he finished, what, 7th in LJ at Indoor NCAAs this year? His 6.64 would have put him I think around 7th in the 60, theoretically. They must have thought his chances were better in LJ, but I think he'd do well in forcing the issue over 60 so he can learn and adapt to that portion of the race better....but I'm not there.

ANYWAY. Maybe it IS false reasoning, but then again maybe the next thing you know his 60 meter becomes a 6.60 or 6.59 just from running it a little bit more. And that's besides the point....what's Carl Lewis's indoor 60 m dash PR? Wanna look into that? On his world Athletics it's posted as just 6.60....so.

Frankly, the 60 doesn't matter, unless you're always in such a hole that you can't dig yourself out. MAYBE that is Bolings problem, I don't know yet. We haven't seen him open it up over 100 since HS, so it's hard to say something with certainty.

Having acknowledged that, his last 40 meters of a 100m dash **based on his 20.19 indoor 200m ability** has to have only improved since 2019. And unless you believe he has REGRESSED over 60 meters in these last two years and he was capable of better tha 6.64 as a senior in HS (which would be a ridiculous take) then automatically attempting to project a 10.0x basic ability out of him is built entirely on logic. He was already 10.15ish in HS, and he's faster now in every phase of his race...so how could argue against that?

My problem with the facts before me is, if Boling wants to be a legit threat over 100 meters, he should be refining his 60 meter more so that he's in better position to let his final 40 meters work their magic. You're right that his 6.64 doesnt blow me away in regards to that. But, I can't say definitively that it's now written in stone that the glass ceiling is confirmed for him over 100 meters.

Let Boling and Micah Williams face off over 100 this year. Let's see how that race plays out, if it does at all. If he's getting toasted by Micah over 100, then stamp the Whatley rules on him. But....if he's running Micah down at all......then throw Whatleys rules OUT.

So you have given up trying to argue the fact white 100/200 sprinters do have more success "MOST" the time at 200m, smart move!

Now it's just what about Boling? As of right now, and yes no 100m indoors, he is more successful at 200m, now all we can do is wait and see how this goes. But....being an NCAA sprinter he is more about team right now and should be. What he does after the NCAA season is when you will see what I'm talking about, right now you really don't get it.

Whatley wrote:

So you have given up trying to argue the fact white 100/200 sprinters do have more success "MOST" the time at 200m, smart move!

Now it's just what about Boling? As of right now, and yes no 100m indoors, he is more successful at 200m, now all we can do is wait and see how this goes. But....being an NCAA sprinter he is more about team right now and should be. What he does after the NCAA season is when you will see what I'm talking about, right now you really don't get it.

You know, no I haven't. Bobby Morrow. Period.

Poster "Meh.", thank you for that great post. It was a pleasure to read your wise words. I bet you are a great coach.

*those great posts. I had just read the first long one. Dropping real knowledge. You should speak/write/commentate/mentor.

People forget that Morrow tried to make the 1960 Olympic team, but ws only going to run, yep.....200m. He came in 4th, same spot he took in the nationals, he was no longer a 100m man.

Alright i feel silly at this point, but i feel like somebody should pay you for that level of analysis.

Whatley wrote:

People forget that Morrow tried to make the 1960 Olympic team, but ws only going to run, yep.....200m. He came in 4th, same spot he took in the nationals, he was no longer a 100m man.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Morrow blew a hammy prior to nationals in '60, and made a calculated move that he might survive 200s more than 100 hoping to still have a shot at another Olympics.

Correct?