Training in racing flats?

Coincidental to finding this post, I've been experimenting with regular and long runs in various Puma flats I've accumulated. First week, my knees developed typical aches, but I've found the flats to be quite nice on medium to long runs, especially when I'm progressing from dead easy to high-end aerobic pace. I should say that I "pathologically pronate" (according to the podiatrist) but I'm more of a mid-foot striker now, so I may be avoiding heel overpronation.

Interesatingly enough, Lydiard, too, claimed that modern shoes (even back in the 70-80s)hindered the foot's natural gait.

Liquori, I think, also blamed 80s injuries on taller heeled midsoles.

At 6'2", 145-150, I'm no flyweight, but I think heavier runners should probably exercise some caution or at least rotate flats more frquently. Personally, I'm a believer in running in a large variety of models weekly to avoid overuse injury from landing on the same footstrike each and every day.

i stopped running in regular shoes after hearing lydiard talk during his 1999 u.s. tour. the more i think about it, the more it makes sense. you should run the way nature intended, and that includes staying off of paved surfaces when possible. modern shoes totally screw with your foot plant. we've fallen victim to great marketing by the shoe companies. they need to make money and the way to make money is to introduce new gimmicks in the shoes: midsole materials, air, gel, springs, laces, stabalization pieces, etc. now nobody believes that the foot is capable of holding up to running without all this crap! we're also screwed over by podiatrists who put us in $350 custom orthos that in turn make us weaker and more injury prone, sending us back to the doctor to spend more money.

just my thought.

I'm hearing what you all have to say about the minimalism when it come to the scooby-do's. I've seen pictures of some of the old school cats from the 70's and before, and they apear to have trained in shoes similar to the adidas Gazelle. I had a pair of these about ten years ago when I still played soccer, and they were probably the most comfortable shoes I've ever had. So I guess I'm asking if anyone can confirm or deny that these are similar to the shoes used back in the day. http://thestore.adidas.com/cgi-bin/adilive/b2c/index.w?sourceid=&promo=ushome

The Gazelle WAS a running shoe back in the day. I had one pair, they were expensive by standards of the time, but were excellent shoes. I know they've become "soccer" shoes and find that a bit amusing.

I'm just going to shamelessly bump this up to the top as I would love to hear as much input as possible about this topic.

people:

www.barefooters.org

read the medical articles on the site.

then, realize the best runners in the world (east africans) all grew up running barefoot. recall adidas pitchman Geb stating that after receiving his first pair of running shoes as a gift, he threw them away because they were too heavy and interfered with his biomechanics. adidas doesn't want people to hear that!

also, check out Lydiard's discussion of the topic in Running to the Top.

Personally, I had chronic knee and shin problems, discovered

www.barefootrunning.com

and barefooters.org, started training in lightest trainers possible and going barefoot as much as possible. result: tough, strong, flexible, properly-functioning feet, and absolutely NO injuries since.

God bless

Good to hear good things about barefoot and light-shoe running. I have no doubt that anyone who moves gradually in that direction will improve performance -- each 100 grams of added weight adds about a minute to your marathon time. Problem is, is you don't get used to lighter (or no) shoes rather gradually the change can cause problems. One of the big benefits of shoes can be reduced landing shock, but on a nice soft artificial track surface the track provides that for you. Road -- that's another issue.

the rate of not prevent pronation. Dual density, dynamic cradles, trustic support, torsion system, cantilever, stability web to use the brand names for them are all devices to prevent excess motion. The last ASICS shoe that didn\'t employ some type of motion device was the Cumulus and even it now has a Strobel last.

Tom Hartge formerly of Nike designed a great flat in the mid 80\'s. It had a low heel, a concave internal heel and no traditional outsole. He told me that it was not popular with the Nike leaders and it certainly wasn\'t for everyone as it wore out quickly. The anatomical buckles and outsole design, and the stretch upper made it wear out quickly but; it was a great shoe and one I wore in several marathons.

I am not sure the flat is for everyone but; I can say the higher the heel the less stable the shoe and possibly too much stress on the metatarsals.

I am not a good data point as I don\'t get injuries in any type of shoel.

I am not sure the flat is for everyone but; I can say the higher the heel the less stable the shoe and possibly too much stress on the metatarsals./quote

So would a lower heel help relieve a morton's neuroma? Anyone had experience with this?

That might not be enough.

I switched to "lightweight trainers" back in my senior year of highschool. Whats the next step? Straight to flats, or do I continue with shoes liek the Azura (new model looks neato) and ascis DS trainers.

Should I look for a light weight trainer with low heels, or heavier racing flats. Any suggetstions on flats to switch to to prevent instant injury.

I rotate 2 pairs of shoes, would I need to rotate 4 flats, 3 pairs I have no idea. Lil help anyone.

walk around barefoot as much as possible. since i'm out of shape and not really doing any real running, i've been going out on long hikes (with running thrown in) in very light racing flats and now those teva slip ons. you might want to go for some long hikes in as little shoe as possible. i think that wearing those teva slip ons as much as possible will help a lot in building strength in muscles that have been neglected. like i've said before, i'm coming from years of running with custom orthodics that totally weakened my feet and lower legs. training in lightweight trainers, you're a lot stronger than i was.

also, run on the sidewalk barefoot. you'll quickly figure out how to land to absorb shock naturally. that's how you should be running.

Just beware that there are a surprising amount of used needles and condoms, not too mention feces(not used) in the most out of way areas. I still run barefoot, but take care.

I like training in shoes that are as heavy as possible. 13.0-13.5 ounces-I weigh 137lbs. I just love the feeling of how light my road racers feel when I do 6 x 1 mile, or 3 x 2 mile, or even a really hard 10 miler. Just my opinion though. I loved the old GT-II and GT-III, and the nike air 180-so heavy and so bulky-felt like a ton of bricks strapped on-helped me run sub 28:40 for 10k! Plus I just felt more protected in them.

washed up wrote:i'm coming from years of running with custom orthodics that totally weakened my feet and lower legs.

I have been wearing Adidas Boston Classics..I like them alot..but am willing to try racing flats..anybody have opinon on what Adidas flats..or any feedback on Adidas Boston Classics..??..make sense to me..

does anyone have any input as to how a leg length discrepancy (about 1/2 inch) would affect being able to train in minimalist shoes/flats?

Confusing of cause and effect. Quite possibly one reason why E. Africans have so much depth with a complex of factors we term "talent" is that the same biomechanics and build that allow a person to run barefoot without hurting their knees and back are also the same factors that are trainable for distance running. Running is complicated in that what we term "talent" is mostly just trainability and perhaps the folks whose biomechanics and build would allow alot of barefoot running are just exhibiting a property that is spurriously correlated with trainability.

"result: tough, strong, flexible, properly-functioning feet, and absolutely NO injuries since.

God bless"

What is really important is how FAST you are racing.

If I was forced to run barefoot, I would have to quit running.