I'm a male that ran 9:36 my senior year in high school to place 2nd at State and scholarship at DI in early 2000. I am not sure I could have ran that workout nor her 15 miler at 5:52/mi pace or 8 x 1000m at 3:04. She is an absolute talent. Granted, I ran 15-20 miles/week in hot/humid south, but this runner is phenomenal. Keep doing what you're doing, BB!!
I think some of you are overlooking the fact that she ran this in Denton, TX. My guess is that it was 70+ degree and over 80% humidity at the start.
morir wrote:
My guess is that it was 70+ degree and over 80% humidity at the start.
No way
Not trying to be mean but if she is so phenomenal why hasn't she done anything yet? She is entering her senior season and the results are not there. Oh she has some nice regional results. Was 3rd at the Brooks Invitational. Won the NXN South regional. Ran a very respectable 9:58 3200m on February 29th this year. So not saying anything derogatory about her as an athlete. She may go one to be great. But what's with the hype? I realize people are very starved for content, but you have to be completely obtuse not to recognize that if everything else was accurate that this "work out" with 2-3 personal male running valets was specially designed to shave 15-20 seconds off her real 3200m time. (I legitimately laughed when the other male runner came back on to the track to push her and maximize the draft effect). She is a 9:58 3200m runner. Which is very good. Maybe she can improve on that.
astro wrote:
Not trying to be mean but if she is so phenomenal why hasn't she done anything yet? She is entering her senior season and the results are not there. Oh she has some nice regional results. Was 3rd at the Brooks Invitational. Won the NXN South regional. Ran a very respectable 9:58 3200m on February 29th this year. So not saying anything derogatory about her as an athlete. She may go one to be great. But what's with the hype? I realize people are very starved for content, but you have to be completely obtuse not to recognize that if everything else was accurate that this "work out" with 2-3 personal male running valets was specially designed to shave 15-20 seconds off her real 3200m time. (I legitimately laughed when the other male runner came back on to the track to push her and maximize the draft effect). She is a 9:58 3200m runner. Which is very good. Maybe she can improve on that.
Because people develop at Different Rates Bill Rodgers was only a 9:36 2 Miler in High School and 8:58 in College, lots of/Most/Almost all runners who ran faster in High School than Rodgers ran in College, never got anywhere near as good as Rodgers got.
Again she may go on to be the best of this class. To win an NCAA title. Make the Olympics. Always a bit of a crapshoot. But between her Brooks PR time in June, 2019 and her time on 02/29/20 she is a 9:55-10:00 3200 runner. Which is perfectly fine. Reading anything into this work out especially the way it was designed seems silly. But so it goes.
She’s obviously very talented. Her future success will be based on whether she can stay healthy. She’s already had multiple stress fractures and other serious injuries, along with the fact that she was running 80-90 miles a week as a freshman.
Dude, give it a rest. You're being a pedantic a-hole. You've made your point ad nauseam, so just move along from this thread. This was incredibly impressive, just as Kipchoge's sub-2 hour marathon (though not record-eligible) was impressive, regardless of the circumstances. And don't be a d***, unlike Kipchoge's situation, you may have heard that there's this little pandemic thing going on right now that doesn't allow her or anyone else to actually run races, hence the set-up time trials.
astro wrote:
Again she may go on to be the best of this class. To win an NCAA title. Make the Olympics. Always a bit of a crapshoot. But between her Brooks PR time in June, 2019 and her time on 02/29/20 she is a 9:55-10:00 3200 runner. Which is perfectly fine. Reading anything into this work out especially the way it was designed seems silly. But so it goes.
you've got to be the only guy I've ever heard claim a time trial is somehow easier than a race.
Yep. 20 seconds faster in a time trial. That's how my team is. We have guys paced to 8:40 for 3200 time trial before the state meet every year thinking that should get them close to 9 minutes in front of the crowd in a big race.
These are the Tuohy fans who woukd claim that she is in 9:20 shape for 2 miles if she ran this workout and time trial. But somebody else does it and they are in 9:55 race shape.
As far as why she hasn't done more? She broke 10 a year ago and there have been no races. Improving by 20 seconds should be expected for somebody who is developing. Schweizer was a 10:30 2 miler in high school. She could possibly break 9 now.
runducoe wrote:
She has a strava and she did a crazy intense track workout on May 10th, 9 days prior to her time trial.
The workrout was 8x1000 @ goal 5k pace w 200 jog rest. Her splits were 3:05, 3:05, 3:04, 3:03, 3:04, 3:05, 3:04, 3:00.
That's a college/pro level workout. incredibly impressive especially considering the 200m jog rest which is short.
good lord
Nope. I'm not the one who made a big deal of it. You guys are trying to say that this was somehow indicative of real race conditions. It is one thing that she is running with 2 male runners whose sole purpose was not just to pace but to allow her to draft. I used the term valet for a reason, with the lead runner slowing down to maintain drafting. But then you had a second male runner positioned right behind her to push her and maximize the draft effect. The draft effect from the lead runner alone at the speed and distance is huge, not only in terms of energy being saved but probable 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap. But then you had the other guy. Never saw that that before.
Meanwhile you have real race times from 2019 and 2020 indicating 9:58. Sorry.
Why do you just list one workout of Strava? Sure, she only posts some of her runs, but still, just look at ONE training week (excluding all the easy runs she does not upload).
Almost every day, 1h biking as cross-training
May 6 - 3.5 mile WU at sub 7 pace, ~3 miles in 5:05/mi pace of quality, 3.5 mile CD in 7:20/mi
May 7 - 10 miles in 6:20/mi pace, calling it "easy jog". Pm, like most days, 1h biking
May 8 - 15 mile long run in 5:52/mi pace + 1 mile CD
May 10 - 4 mile warm-up in 6:30/mi pace, 8x1000 in ~3:03, with 200 jog rest in sub 60, 4 mile CD in 7:30/mi pace
This amount of quality in just 4 days is INSANE for a HS girl. She is training like an elite sub 15 5k runner, no, she is training harder than an elite sub 15 5k runner.
The coaches need a wake-up call. They didn't learn from last autumn where her foot broke under the heavy training load. No amount of talent can survive such a training regimen for more than a few weeks/months. Please pray to the gods (if they exist), that they take back not just one, but 7 steps in the training and make sure she can actually START at states, regionals and nationals in good shape and doesn't get injured again along the way.
I know Tinman gets a lot of criticism on these boards but this would be a case where he should be hired and structure the training himself rather than her current HS coaches. She is essentially training harder and with faster 1k reps than Drew Hunter did in the summer between his junior and HS year, where he was already running MUCH faster times.
She's run 9:39 on her own legs on an IAAF certified track. Round up to 9:40 if you like but she's vastly superior to 9:58. I suspect she beat your 9:46 high school PR and you're butthurt.
Are you guys all high?
I've already explained multiple times how this time is helped by the fact that she had Pacers and drafters
https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-drafting-help-in-running/
Obviously this is easier than a race. In a race with competition you have to worry about and deal with the competition. In a race with no competition you have to lead the race from the gun and deal with lapping other opponents
She went into this basically running with a team helping her like kipchoge did
I'm not trying to say it wasn't a great effort and still a really good time but she ran a time trial with people pacing her and providing a draft for her. It's still great again I mean we should encourage her and appreciate the effort but it's at least 10 seconds if not 15 seconds fast compared to running alone in a race
How dare you bring up the laws of physics here!?
Nico woukd have run about 8:52 last year if he led at Arcadia then and Cole would have run 8:28 with a pacer. I knew that Sprout was better on the track but didn't realize he was that much better than Young.
Yeah, hasn't done anything, right, astro? ONLY THE #2 5K XC RUNNER OF ALL-TIME!! You don't know sh!t about this sport.
astro wrote:
She fell because she was already on the limit trying to keep up with the other runners.
if "she was already on the limit trying to keep up with the other runners" 1:55 into the race, she wouldn't have finished 23rd. Unless sub 6 minute mile pace is considered fading. Perhaps it is for her.