Alex Hutchinson calls out CANOVA over study confirming EPO works on Kenyan runners

We were talking about cycling speeds.

Sure Gary wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

For cycling.

Yeah, a doping triathlete only benefits in one discipline.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Or this,

https://wattmatters.blog/home/2018/7/20/alpe-dhuez-tdf-fastest-ascent-times-1982-2018

Something happened after 1989, now what could that have been?

When did blood transfusions start in the tdf? 70s? 80s? When did EPO appear? 1991 when was I learned about it. Sean Kelly et al in the PDM team all coming down with 'food poisoning' but the rumours started about EPO and I assumed both stories were true.

So why does everyone go on about Cathal Lombard being the anti christ of Irish sport,if Kelly was doped? Why doesn no-one ask him, not even his friend Paul Kimmage? Why does no-one ask Indurain either?

BTW those speeds are wrong. The averagae paces were even faster. The variation is due to the weather and the type of racing.

But will some of the science experts here please explain how injecting EPO helps circumvent the laws of physics? Still waiting for an anwer on that one.

JonO. wrote:

But will some of the science experts here please explain how injecting EPO helps circumvent the laws of physics? Still waiting for an anwer on that one.

Still waiting for you to get that no laws have to be circumvented.

So you think that physics has nothing to do with running or what?

JonO. wrote:

So you think that physics has nothing to do with running or what?

Of course it does. Just not in the way you are imagining.

What am I imagining, and what is your bioengergetics/biomechanics model?

You are imagining that a 4% boost will cause combustion of the organism.

My bioenergetics model is that it will not and since no EPO doper has ever caught on fire while running faster it is henceforth correct.

The Pharaoh Ramzi wrote:

Aragon wrote:

Because the outcome of PED use in the real world is always very uncertain, are you here admitting that mere expectation of some 1.0-1.5 % improvement is enough rationale for someone to take rHuEPO/blood dope particularly when the detection window of rHuEPO is so short and the ABP-program so insensitive?

Um, hell to the yeah. A good deal of these busted dopers have done great things and won big races.

No kidding! (Btw, I like that handle?). The Pharaoh Ramzi made a mockery of that World-class field at Beijing fully loaded on CERA. He looked about as fatigued as a walk in the park after the finish. Lol.

And Blood Booster Boulami set the WR record fully loaded on EPO - a time that still stands some 18 yrs later!

Of course, rekrunner & Aragon will say it's just a coincidence and there's nothing to see there.

Jon Strawman builder wrote:

You are imagining that a 4% boost will cause combustion of the organism.

My bioenergetics model is that it will not and since no EPO doper has ever caught on fire while running faster it is henceforth correct.

I'm not imagining it, it's reality. You can't exceed homeoststasis. But since you don't understand the concept or they physics pertaining to it or the chemistry or biology, then you have to believe in the drugs.

They aren't using 4% more oxygen than they could naturally. That is a bioenergetic impossiblity.

So, back to my question, which you have avoided; what is your bioenergetics/biomechanics model?

JonO. wrote:

Jon Strawman builder wrote:

You are imagining that a 4% boost will cause combustion of the organism.

My bioenergetics model is that it will not and since no EPO doper has ever caught on fire while running faster it is henceforth correct.

I'm not imagining it, it's reality. You can't exceed homeoststasis. But since you don't understand the concept or they physics pertaining to it or the chemistry or biology, then you have to believe in the drugs.

They aren't using 4% more oxygen than they could naturally. That is a bioenergetic impossiblity.

So, back to my question, which you have avoided; what is your bioenergetics/biomechanics model?

The same but with 4% added. Can't you read?

You don't know what homeostasis is. Heck you can't even write it without stuttering. lol

Stop arguing like a child. You have no idea what homeostasis is or how it relates to running.

Is this the one?

JonO. wrote:

Stop arguing like a child. You have no idea what homeostasis is or how it relates to running.

Grow up, Jon.

Morrocan Magic wrote:

And Blood Booster Boulami set the WR record fully loaded on EPO - a time that still stands some 18 yrs later!

... Of course, rekrunner & Aragon will say it's just a coincidence and there's nothing to see there.

I don't know in which cuckoo land you live in, because I don't hold the position that rHuEPO doesn't enhance performance, an opinion I brought forward not too long time ago:

Aragon wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

Interesting. 1% - 1.5% is apparently Ashenden's opinion for 1500 m and blood doping.

What's your opinion, Aragon?...

I have thought very little about how blood doping enhances elite performance, but I think the magnitude would be something like that perhaps even more with someone with a very high lung diffusion/perfusion - capacity related to body size and with good peripheral factors to use the extra oxygen "offered".

Naturally if you have this mindset of seeing yourself as the reincarnation of Indiana Jones but this time fighting in the Internet the "pro-doping russian whitewashers with unspecified 'agendas'", you can easily not notice the views that other people actually hold.

Pointing out your....

1) logical fallacies 2) double standards 3) cherry picking of evidence 4) or total lack of knowledge of the source material ≠ being "pro-doping" or thinking that doping doesn't "work"

Aragon wrote:

I don't hold the position that rHuEPO doesn't enhance performance, an opinion I brought forward not too long time ago:

I do hold that posistion. You disapoint me Aragon. But then so does everyone on this message board.

It makes no sense from the poing of view of a bionergetics/biomechanics model which is informed by the homeostatic control model.

In other words, your body knows how many red blood cells it needs and believing in Frankenstein physiology is evdience of how fantasy enters the psyche of everyone who believes in the PED dogma.

Still waiting for someone to post an intelligent bioenergetics/biomechanics model that shows an informed undestanding of oxygen uptake, anaerobic contribution at marathon pace and homeostasis.

JonO. wrote:

Aragon wrote:

I don't hold the position that rHuEPO doesn't enhance performance, an opinion I brought forward not too long time ago:

I do hold that posistion. You disapoint me Aragon. But then so does everyone on this message board.

It makes no sense from the poing of view of a bionergetics/biomechanics model which is informed by the homeostatic control model.

In other words, your body knows how many red blood cells it needs and believing in Frankenstein physiology is evdience of how fantasy enters the psyche of everyone who believes in the PED dogma.

Still waiting for someone to post an intelligent bioenergetics/biomechanics model that shows an informed undestanding of oxygen uptake, anaerobic contribution at marathon pace and homeostasis.

Oh, now it's just marathon pace, eh?

Heat shock proteins, brah. Look it up.

JonO. wrote:

Aragon wrote:

I don't hold the position that rHuEPO doesn't enhance performance, an opinion I brought forward not too long time ago:

I do hold that posistion. You disapoint me Aragon. But then so does everyone on this message board.

It makes no sense from the poing of view of a bionergetics/biomechanics model which is informed by the homeostatic control model.

In other words, your body knows how many red blood cells it needs and believing in Frankenstein physiology is evdience of how fantasy enters the psyche of everyone who believes in the PED dogma.

Still waiting for someone to post an intelligent bioenergetics/biomechanics model that shows an informed undestanding of oxygen uptake, anaerobic contribution at marathon pace and homeostasis.

How is that peer review going? You could have at least three degrees and a column in a monthly magazine by now. Instead you have this repetitive line going for 17 years on a message board.