BREAKING:Jama Aden's hotel in Spain raided.

graphicopy wrote:

Not the best comparison -- regardless of what may or may not have happened with Salazar, Mary Slaney is still probably the most talented US middle distance runner ever -- maybe even ahead of Ryun.

That wasn't meant to be a comparison, but a reminder that Salazar coached a drug cheat.

larkimm wrote:

wejo wrote:

We didn't implicate Farah. It is already well known he associates with Aden. They're both born in Somalia.

Well, now I'm glad we're clear about that. If you have ever met someone, and you happen to have been born (not raised, just born) in the same country as them, you are clearly ripe for any accusation or finger pointing.

To be fair to the rest of the article, I don't think it is over inflammatory or poorly written. But to bring up someone's place of birth and dress it up as some sort of meaningful insight is lame in the extreme.

To be fair to wejo, he also wrote in his short statement: "he [Farah] associates with Aden". On top of that, he's trained with him and his group. Since a couple of years, repeatedly.

But you are well known to downplay the facts implicating the British stars.

i agree with spencer wrote:

he is protected by UK fully 100% just like paula, and seb coe is now in charge, you think he will let Mo go down? not in your life.

no one makes huge drops in time in their late 20's and continues on like that, except regina jacobs...oh and she got popped haha

Except for Paula Radcliffe, who also improved over 5000 after turning to the marathon. But then, after her (at least) second time with highly suspicious off scores, indicative of "likely doping", she dropped back from being a 2:15 super world beater to a consistent 2:23 also-ran.

Another exception is Dieter Baumann - who of course then also got popped.

El Keniano wrote:

Oromiya, are you in Ethiopia? How is this playing there? What are they saying?

Everyone very quiet, my Kenyan brother. Its like the whole nation mourning. Athletes you meet all look depressed and even though training going on, its taken a slow down. Its about the Dibaba sisters getting caught up in Jama's mess and the implication it has on Ethiopian athletics and especially the team to Rio. The future looks very bleak, to say the least.

Dieter Baumann also used to train in Flagstaff, Az.

Let's go back to Jos Hermens and what he said when the woman that was going to be married to Kenenisa Bekele…dropped dead.

The circumstances of Techale’s death will have affected him deeply. The couple were out for a run in Ararat, a forest in a hilly area on the outskirts of Addis Ababa, on Tuesday morning when Techale collapsed. Bekele carried her to his car, but she died before they managed to get to hospital.

Her death has been ascribed in some reports to a heart attack, although despite the sudden circumstances of her demise, no postmortem was conducted before her burial on Wednesday - as autopsies remain uncommon, even among the Addis Ababa elite.

Thus, no-one will ever know the real cause of death of an otherwise apparently fit and healthy young woman.

The excerpt above says that no autopsy was performed.

Now look at what Jos Hermens says in the 2nd article:

"We are talking about the loss of an athlete as a person, not of an athlete as a performer," Hermens said. "That is the tragedy. A young life has been lost. It is difficult to say if it was heart failure or something to do with the brain. The Ethiopian doctors who performed the autopsy could find nothing. You ask yourself if you could do more in terms of testing, but Alem had a check-up in Holland last year. Sometimes you cannot forecast these things."

Jos Hermens says an autopsy was done and could find nothing.

Which one is it Jos Hermens? Was an autopsy done or not done?

http://www.ethiomedia.com/newpress/kenenisa_alem_techale_story.html

Do you see any problem here?

Jos Hermens is a manager from the Netherlands who uses doctors from Spain, Germany, and ?

Please forget everything you have just read.

It is time to go to back to sleep and have nice dreams.

No worries.

casual obsever wrote:

larkimm wrote:

Well, now I'm glad we're clear about that. If you have ever met someone, and you happen to have been born (not raised, just born) in the same country as them, you are clearly ripe for any accusation or finger pointing.

To be fair to the rest of the article, I don't think it is over inflammatory or poorly written. But to bring up someone's place of birth and dress it up as some sort of meaningful insight is lame in the extreme.

To be fair to wejo, he also wrote in his short statement: "he [Farah] associates with Aden". On top of that, he's trained with him and his group. Since a couple of years, repeatedly.

But you are well known to downplay the facts implicating the British stars.

I like the accusation that I am well known to downplay it!

I was being very narrow in my criticism, I do think the "place of birth" is a very lazy phrase.

Saying something more like "it is well known that Farah and Aden are friends whose shared Somalian heritage has reinforced their friendship" might well be perfectly valid. But just saying you're born there adds nothing.

I was originally going to snip the "well known he associates" phrase but left it in for two reasons - firstly, it seems to stand alone as fact which could be disputed or challenged (I have no insight into this) but also secondly the word "they're" would have not made sense without both Aden and Farah being mentioned in that sentence.

If they are close acquaintances, it does seem like very poor judgement on both Mo and British Athletics behalf. But I don't know if they are close acquaintances, only what I've read in varying reports in online newspapers, blogs and forum posts.

Don't forget Dr. Frederico Rosa from Italy!

http://running.competitor.com/2014/11/news/rita-jeptoos-agent-federico-rosa_117410

Oh boy.

What fun!!!

Please go back to sleep.

rjm33 wrote:

Don't forget Dr. Frederico Rosa from Italy!

No worries, I don't.

But don't post too much, or the trolls will go crazy and call everything circumstantial/"nothing to see here".

larkimm wrote:

wejo wrote:

We didn't implicate Farah. It is already well known he associates with Aden. They're both born in Somalia.

Well, now I'm glad we're clear about that. If you have ever met someone, and you happen to have been born (not raised, just born) in the same country as them, you are clearly ripe for any accusation or finger pointing.

How about if you have never been a medal contender before the age of 28 and then you become the best distance runner in the world for six years, during which time you have a world-famous drug pusher hold a stopwatch for you every summer as you train with drug cheats in remote locations? How about if you take hour-long showers that drown out your doorbell just at the time when drug-testers arrive at your home? Is it okay for people to wonder about you then?

larkimm wrote:

Saying something more like "it is well known that Farah and Aden are friends whose shared Somalian heritage has reinforced their friendship" might well be perfectly valid. But just saying you're born there adds nothing.

Right, your statement is much better. Unfortunately, wejo isn't exactly a natural born writer - I can relate to that.

webby wrote:

larkimm wrote:

Well, now I'm glad we're clear about that. If you have ever met someone, and you happen to have been born (not raised, just born) in the same country as them, you are clearly ripe for any accusation or finger pointing.

How about if you have never been a medal contender before the age of 28 and then you become the best distance runner in the world for six years, during which time you have a world-famous drug pusher hold a stopwatch for you every summer as you train with drug cheats in remote locations? How about if you take hour-long showers that drown out your doorbell just at the time when drug-testers arrive at your home? Is it okay for people to wonder about you then?

All valid points. Whilst I might disagree with your conclusions from some of them (the "not a contender before age 28" one I have a real problem with as it simply ignores the fact that potentially before 28 ability / inherent talent was all there, but it just wasn't being extracted), I have no problem with people being sceptical about all elite athletes, Farah included. I am a huge fan of his, I don't believe he is a cheat, but I know that I could be being fooled just as much as I know that some of the idle theories and speculation about people like Mo could be completely off the mark.

As usual I come back to the fact that we don't know, and we won't know unless someone spills the beans or someone gets tested positively. I'm not happy that I can't conclude that all athletes without a positive test to their name are definitely clean, but I accept that that's all I can conclude from my armchair.

I hope Aden's arrest brings some clarity, but I know that even if Aden said on record "Look, yes I doped some athletes, but I didn't dope Mo" there'd be plenty on here who still wouldn't believe such a statement. So unless he says "Yes, I doped Mo", I'm going to remain looking for the positives.

Makloufi is an intelligient guy. I would guess he either

-was clean, and left Aden because he didn't like what Aden was doing and didn't want to get caught up in it

-was doping, but wanted to try and run clean so changed coaches, hence his less strong performances since

-was doping, and knew if he left Aden it would be harder for the iaaf to prove he cheated in 2012 if either Aden or him were caught later, so he could retain his olympic title

-was doping and knew that Aden was getting sloppy, pushing PEDs on new and unknown quantities like David Torrence, and (according to Willis) known to be under investigation.

Suspicious that mo has not had a single Instagram picture of himself in it since the raid occurred?

In retrospect, it's interesting to hear Torrence describe Aden's workouts:

https://www.facebook.com/FloTrack/videos/vb.40233564444/10154174967779445/?type=2&theater

Sounds like they raced a lot of workouts, which we all know doesn't work (for clean runners). Torrence pushed himself to the limit and raced poorly. Runners on epo and steroids, I suspect, could push themselves to their limits in workouts and still race well. And, presumably, their limits rose, too.

Jamba Juice wrote:

Suspicious that mo has not had a single Instagram picture of himself in it since the raid occurred?

I think this might be one from yesterday, but you can't tell with the jacket over his head.

Oromiya wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Oromiya, are you in Ethiopia? How is this playing there? What are they saying?

Everyone very quiet, my Kenyan brother. Its like the whole nation mourning. Athletes you meet all look depressed and even though training going on, its taken a slow down. Its about the Dibaba sisters getting caught up in Jama's mess and the implication it has on Ethiopian athletics and especially the team to Rio. The future looks very bleak, to say the least.

We went through something similar with Rita Jeptoo. I'm genuinely sorry for you guys especially if it affects the team's morale. I hope your authorities at least stand up for Tirunesh and disentangle her from this mess if she's never been coached by Aden. Genzebe, on the other hand, even if clean, will never live this down, I'm afraid. And I agree, Aden preys on naive youngsters who don't know better.

The Nike Androgen Project wrote:

Jamba Juice wrote:

Suspicious that mo has not had a single Instagram picture of himself in it since the raid occurred?

I think this might be one from yesterday, but you can't tell with the jacket over his head.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uEfdlrFOt3U/hqdefault.jpg

Are you trying to suggest that is Mo? Slight problem in that the guy in the photo is white and Mo is black...

Oromiya wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Oromiya, are you in Ethiopia? How is this playing there? What are they saying?

Everyone very quiet, my Kenyan brother. Its like the whole nation mourning. Athletes you meet all look depressed and even though training going on, its taken a slow down. Its about the Dibaba sisters getting caught up in Jama's mess and the implication it has on Ethiopian athletics and especially the team to Rio. The future looks very bleak, to say the least.

If the arrest slows doping, there is much more to be optimistic about.

If the Dibaba sisters are clean, then their performances will not change without Aden.

It does make the coaching situation temporarily more difficult.