Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

It helps no one to point out how much the rich pay in federal income taxes. This is only because the rich have the vast majority of income. And the reason they have most of the income is because of the tax code itself.

It is always a bogus argument to only consider federal income tax. The full tax burden must be taken into account. This includes the tax breaks and subsidies on businesses owned by the wealthy. And when you do that you find that the rich do not pay their fair share. It's not even close.

The wealthy get the same deduction for interest paid by businesses they own. On top of that, they get special tax breaks and subsidies that make their businesses even more valuable. I get no special tax breaks and subsidies for my home.

Fat hurts wrote:

agip wrote:

and you did get a home subsidy for years - a huge one. The deductibility of mortgage interest. That's one of the largest tax subsidies ever devised by man, and it went to you. You.

The wealthy get the same deduction for interest paid by businesses they own. On top of that, they get special tax breaks and subsidies that make their businesses even more valuable. I get no special tax breaks and subsidies for my home.

Let's take a couple of concrete examples:

If a wealthy person owns stock in an oil company he benefits from federal tax dollars that pay the oil company to drill for oil. This is beyond absurd. Tax dollars that you and I paid are being given to the oil company just for being in business and doing what it does.

If a wealthy person owns stock in a software company he benefits from a federal tax break for research and development. Again, this is beyond absurd. Tax dollars that you and I paid are being given to the software company just for being in business and doing what it does.

There are thousands of examples like this in the federal tax code. And it is the wealthy who benefit.

So, Twitter deletes a bunch of bots that send automated troll posts as regular maintenance. We know several Russian bots were created to influence the election.

Trump brings the Twitter CEO into the Oval Office and complains about losing Twitter followers.

A major presidential priority, I guess.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-gets-gentle-reassurance-twitter-233706244.html

Yeah, and the human followers mumble short, simple slogans & act like robots & zombies...

Fat hurts wrote:

agip wrote:

and you did get a home subsidy for years - a huge one. The deductibility of mortgage interest. That's one of the largest tax subsidies ever devised by man, and it went to you. You.

The wealthy get the same deduction for interest paid by businesses they own. On top of that, they get special tax breaks and subsidies that make their businesses even more valuable. I get no special tax breaks and subsidies for my home.

Owning a business does change the tax system, yes. But if you are limiting your concern only to rich people who privately own businesses that have large amounts of debt to pay interest on...that's just not very many people. I mean really, come on.

And as for the ginormous mortgage interest deduction, remember that it caps out - if your mortgage is over 500k (1 million for marrieds) any interest paid over that amount is not deductible. So that is a gigantic tax break focused right smack on middle income/upper middle income people.

agip wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

The wealthy get the same deduction for interest paid by businesses they own. On top of that, they get special tax breaks and subsidies that make their businesses even more valuable. I get no special tax breaks and subsidies for my home.

Owning a business does change the tax system, yes. But if you are limiting your concern only to rich people who privately own businesses that have large amounts of debt to pay interest on...that's just not very many people. I mean really, come on.

And as for the ginormous mortgage interest deduction, remember that it caps out - if your mortgage is over 500k (1 million for marrieds) any interest paid over that amount is not deductible. So that is a gigantic tax break focused right smack on middle income/upper middle income people.

I'm not limiting my argument to privately owned businesses. I'm saying that both businesses and private homeowners get deductions for interest. So that one is a wash.

(Of course, private homeowners don't get a deduction for other interest such as on car loans. While a business gets to deduct almost any interest it incurs.)

The problem is all of the special tax advantages given to particular businesses. These tax advantages go directly to the wealthy who own the businesses, both privately and through common stock. Ordinary Americans don't get those special tax advantages.

The tax code is the reason that all the wealth in this country has been sucked up by the richest 1%. Wealthy people buy the politicians who put special provisions in the tax code. So the wealthy get wealthier while the poor and middle class struggle just to get by.

If you think rich people are subsidized just wait until you hear about farmers

You aren't completely wrong on anything, but saying the 'tax code is the reason all the wealth in this country has been sucked up by the richest 1%" is way simplistic. Just pointing out that much of that focused wealth has been created by recent immigrants (google, ebay, intel, kohls, tesla, Chobani, etc) tells you that tax policy has little to do with it.

The crazy wealth inequality that you are complaining about is not IBM vice presidents...it is from a few wildly successful, giant companies. it's not a systematic tax issue...it's the scalability of tech business...it's globalism....it's the power of immigration. These are not bad things. these are good things.

I don't really feel like debating tax policy tho, so if you want the last word you can have it.

Racket wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

Let's take a couple of concrete examples:

If a wealthy person owns stock in an oil company he benefits from federal tax dollars that pay the oil company to drill for oil. This is beyond absurd. Tax dollars that you and I paid are being given to the oil company just for being in business and doing what it does.

If a wealthy person owns stock in a software company he benefits from a federal tax break for research and development. Again, this is beyond absurd. Tax dollars that you and I paid are being given to the software company just for being in business and doing what it does.

There are thousands of examples like this in the federal tax code. And it is the wealthy who benefit.

If you think rich people are subsidized just wait until you hear about farmers

That turns out to be just another good example. Family farms are dying and their land is gobbled up by huge corporations who, you guessed it, take advantage of special tax breaks. These corporations are owned by the wealthy who use their influence on government to get even wealthier.

agip wrote:

There is is: "Mussolini might be a little hard on the Ethiopians and the Jews, but he made the trains run on time."

There it is. You did it, Sally, You rationalized authoritarians by saying how good they run the country.

You are barely American unless you retract.

Trumpettes are NOT Americans!

Fat hurts wrote:

Serious Dude wrote:

Seriously, dude? Do you ever say anything that is NOT absurd?

Suddenly voters are going to behave totally differently than in the past? And what is the mechanism that will realize this sea change? Magic perhaps?

These sea changes happen in politics. It is happening now.

The voting public simply rejects the old paradigm and latches on to something new.

But if you are looking for a mechanism, the primary one is death. The people who believe in trickle down economics are dying. Their place in the voting booth is being taken over by younger voters who came of age during the Great Recession. These younger voters have a very different attitude toward the wealthy than their parents and grandparents.

So, serious thought processes is not something that you do.

Got it.

agip wrote:

Owning a business does change the tax system, yes. But if you are limiting your concern only to rich people who privately own businesses that have large amounts of debt to pay interest on...that's just not very many people. I mean really, come on.

And as for the ginormous mortgage interest deduction, remember that it caps out - if your mortgage is over 500k (1 million for marrieds) any interest paid over that amount is not deductible. So that is a gigantic tax break focused right smack on middle income/upper middle income people.

No offense, but you "ginormous mortgage interest deduction" is given to those who can afford to buy a home. in other words, it is one more (ginormous) tax break that excludes the bottom third of the population.

All the BS about the percentage of "income" the rich pay is high, is a bogus number. The "income" is based on AGI. Before determining the AGI number a lot of special deductions are taken, especially through businesses that are income up-the-line.

Remember that Trump has had many years of ZERO "income", yet he managed to live far beyond his means—like a millionaire. So, how did Trump manage to make to pay the huge mortgage, pay for lavish restaurants, pay a full time chauffeur, and pay for a full time body guard staff? all on ZERO income?

Rental Rick wrote:

agip wrote:

Owning a business does change the tax system, yes. But if you are limiting your concern only to rich people who privately own businesses that have large amounts of debt to pay interest on...that's just not very many people. I mean really, come on.

And as for the ginormous mortgage interest deduction, remember that it caps out - if your mortgage is over 500k (1 million for marrieds) any interest paid over that amount is not deductible. So that is a gigantic tax break focused right smack on middle income/upper middle income people.

No offense, but you "ginormous mortgage interest deduction" is given to those who can afford to buy a home. in other words, it is one more (ginormous) tax break that excludes the bottom third of the population.

If you can't afford to buy a house you are most likely paying zero federal income tax or very little federal income tax. So yeah, you are getting a lot of free stuff the rest of us are paying for. You're welcome. Glad to do it for you.

Rental Rick wrote:

agip wrote:

Owning a business does change the tax system, yes. But if you are limiting your concern only to rich people who privately own businesses that have large amounts of debt to pay interest on...that's just not very many people. I mean really, come on.

And as for the ginormous mortgage interest deduction, remember that it caps out - if your mortgage is over 500k (1 million for marrieds) any interest paid over that amount is not deductible. So that is a gigantic tax break focused right smack on middle income/upper middle income people.

No offense, but you "ginormous mortgage interest deduction" is given to those who can afford to buy a home. in other words, it is one more (ginormous) tax break that excludes the bottom third of the population.

+1

The bottom third of earners in this country are bearing the largest tax burden while the wealthy pay virtually zero taxes.

agip wrote:

Rental Rick wrote:

No offense, but you "ginormous mortgage interest deduction" is given to those who can afford to buy a home. in other words, it is one more (ginormous) tax break that excludes the bottom third of the population.

If you can't afford to buy a house you are most likely paying zero federal income tax or very little federal income tax. So yeah, you are getting a lot of free stuff the rest of us are paying for. You're welcome. Glad to do it for you.

If the wealthy aren't paying their fair share and the lower 1/3 are paying zero or very little in federal income taxes, who is paying for everything? That's right. Middle Class.

Middle Class Joe wrote:

agip wrote:

If you can't afford to buy a house you are most likely paying zero federal income tax or very little federal income tax. So yeah, you are getting a lot of free stuff the rest of us are paying for. You're welcome. Glad to do it for you.

If the wealthy aren't paying their fair share and the lower 1/3 are paying zero or very little in federal income taxes, who is paying for everything? That's right. Middle Class.

Ah no. Exactly wrong. the rich pay almost all the federal income tax.

"The share of reported income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers fell slightly to 19.7 percent in 2016. Their share of federal individual income taxes fell slightly, to 37.3 percent."

"In 2016, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent."

Pluser of 1s wrote:

Rental Rick wrote:

No offense, but you "ginormous mortgage interest deduction" is given to those who can afford to buy a home. in other words, it is one more (ginormous) tax break that excludes the bottom third of the population.

+1

The bottom third of earners in this country are bearing the largest tax burden while the wealthy pay virtually zero taxes.

This is so wrong and so unfounded by any facts that I can't even get my head around it. Ok, I can. it's factually, morally, ethically, spiritually incorrect.

The US has one of the most graduated income tax systems in the world.