50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Happy father’s day everyone!

Mon = 90 min slow but not easy, mostly trail

Tue = Rest

Wed = 90 min easy, steep, rocky trail

Thu = 90 min, medium, 45 min cemetery, 45 min trail (92 degrees)

Fri = Rest

Sat = 45 min on track: 1600 wrmp, 1600 @ 6:52, 1 lap walk then 1600 @ 6:49

Sun = 90 min easy mountain gravel road @3800 feet

A good week. I had been worried that all this slow slogging was killing my speed. I mean, on Thursday, my ave pace was in the 14 min range on the trail.

Saturday I decided to do some tests so see how slow I had gotten. I was pleasantly surprised to turn in 1600's of 6:52 and 6:49 on hard, but not all-out efforts. Not fast by LR standards, of course, but I’m pleased considering my training paces have been so slow.

Have a good week all.

Brad Barton 4:05.41 1500 I believe he is 50 so that is an American record.

Portland Masters track meet June 18-19th.

Week 263: 5 hours 8 minutes in 7 runs.

Mon - AM 30 min easy, PM 30 min easy

Tue - 38 min hilly run

Wed - off

Thu - 30 min easy

Fri - 45 min hilly run

Sat - 1 hr 30 min slow (1 hr for 6.3mi then 30 min slightly faster)

Sun - 45 min hilly run

I'm a little concerned with my Achilles. They are fine when running or walking but hurt when I touch them. I have three possible causes in mind but it will take a while to figure out which is the real cause.

I am running a 5K on July 4, and will be happy and surprised if I can equal my last one, which I barely remember.

Rtype wrote:

I had been worried that all this slow slogging was killing my speed. I mean, on Thursday, my ave pace was in the 14 min range on the trail.

Running slow doesn't make you slow. But never running fast does make you slow. If that makes sense.

AIan Bennet wrote:

Running slow doesn't make you slow. But never running fast does make you slow. If that makes sense.

What a true statement. That is a well rounded training plan wrapped up in a few words...

Dave

lucKY2b wrote:

Oh, and I have been purposefully staying away from the whole Robert Young thread.

Someone explained how the troll name with Apersson (and then again with Arealpersson) worked. I realized my username had the same potential problem, so at least I learned one useful thing from that thread.

That thread is still cranking at better than a page an hour. I managed to catch up once on page 27, but immediately fell behind again; currently I am more than 100 pages behind. If I read 32 pages per day, I can catch up just about the time RY was scheduled to finish in Times Square. Of course based on letsrun history the thread should still be going strong years from now. That's a little discouraging.

There is a summary thread with only three pages as of now.

Dear All,

Reporting in again from the Far-East here...

Yes, Father's Day...it was a busy build-up to it for me because I had to take the kids and wife to the airport early (and I mean 'early" as in woke up at 3 AM in the morning ) as they are off to spending ten days over in Japan with the in-laws..Miss them already :( Had father's day breakfast there at H.K. International Airport and wheeled my 3 year-old around the airport aisles ,racing the older 6 year old.. was becoming a workout unto itself ! After I saw them off, I made it back to the apartment complex ..spooked out by the sudden silence in the house that day , as it's the first time I have been separated away from them for several years...

Anyhow, managed to to squeeze in 36-37 miles for the week in 5 runs despite many hold-ups preventing me from getting out in the week.. so was happy with my effort. On Father's Day, after family's departure, I did the 1 hour tempo and managed to claw another 30 seconds off the 10 mile treadmill tempo (58:57) Speed /pace probably benefitted from slight drop in mileage.The week looked like:

Monday: 6.5 easy

Tuesday: 6.5 steady

Wednesday:1 mile warmup, 7 X 200 hard uphill (jog slow down) 3w.down

Thursday:off

Friday 6.5 easy pace , but too hot 90s /34 degree c.

Saturday:off

sunday: 1 mile warmup, 1hour treadmill ,10.18 miles, 1 mile warmdown

(10 miles 58.57)

For the timed tempo, as it's getting even hotter in these parts, besides adjusting room temperature to 18 C (lowest) I also just put a fan in front of the treadmill that seemed to work wonders.

racer db@ : 　yes, couldn't agree more with the training outlook , Lydiard as well, said too much speed makes you slow ,not fast!! Besides that you tend to get injured!

Lucky@ Thanks for overviews of the weekly threads and keeping it going .. reading your post is a kind of benchmark on itself for me .. you are a consistent trainer ...keep it going!

others@ 55 year-olds doing 30-31 second 200 reps , ...a 50 year-old running 4.05 !! amazing and inspirational

Hope to experiment with a first race or two in Canada when I return in July/August Thumbs up to all with their training...

Later ,

Kirk

My best wishes to my fellow Dads out there.

Kind of a down week for me. I started the week dead-legged and tired and managed 31 miles on four runs, and only 60 miles on three rides. I think I was overworked the past few weeks, and may need to step back a little.

I ended Tuesday's workout early because I was just tired. Planned on 2x 2000 meters of 200 in & outs; managed only 4 laps (5:40). Started a second effort after 400 meter job, but quit after only one lap. By then the winds had picked up to 20-25 mph, and they pretty much stayed there the rest of the week. Today was better, and did a 12 mile long run feeling better than I had all week, at just over 7 min pace average.

We're off to Yosemite this Tuesday for a several days, so may not get much training in this coming week either. We'll see.

Decided to skip US Masters Nationals - just not there yet and don't want to push too hard trying to get competitive. Hoping to do something later this summer.

AIan Bennet wrote:

[quote]Rtype wrote:

I had been worried that all this slow slogging was killing my speed. I mean, on Thursday, my ave pace was in the 14 min range on the trail.

AIan Bennet wrote:Running slow doesn't make you slow. But never running fast does make you slow. If that makes sense.

Totally agree. As Dave said, what a true statement. Now, how much speed is too much? "Results may vary"...

AIan Bennet wrote:

Running slow doesn't make you slow. But never running fast does make you slow. If that makes sense.

I'm gonna test this when I run a 5k on July 4th...

M: swimming 1000m.

T: 8 miles (5th-7th miles @ 7:53-7:47-7:41)

W: 3 miles / 6 miles.

R: 7 miles.

F: 8 miles (5th-7th miles @ 7:51-7:43-7:37)

SA: 7 miles.

SU: 14.5 miles.

I did the first double since early April, and went a little longer on Sunday.

Mon. 1 h 33 m mtb also 2 x 50 min hikes the pm one wearing weighted vest.

Tue. 16.5 km hilly trails 1 h 37 m 550 m elevation gain.

Wed. Hilly hour hike then an hour kayak and another hour hike with wt. vest.

Thu. 11.7 km run with 10 x up the roo track 1 h 59 m. 790 m elevation gain.

Sat. 36 min kayak.13 kms of running inc 5.2 km hilly club race 23 mins. 23 kms mtn bike ride in the dark.

Sun. Another club race 6.6 kms on forest roads 29 mins. Plus warmup and cooldown. Also out later for an hours hike.

Greetings All:

Happy belated Father's Day to all you dads.

Last week, Week 6 of current program, looked like this:

M 5 easy

T Rest

W 6 x 400m @ 6:15 pace on roads in torrential rain

R 4.5 easy

F 4 easy

S rest

S rest

19 miles for the week.

Feeling pretty stale and discouraged. We'll see if things improve this week, although I'll be in Ottawa for the second half, including about 13 hours in the car Wednesday. Hoping to run along some of my old high school routes for fun.

I ran two or three times in all of January because of a hamstring problem. Prior to that I'd been running 2-3 times /week at the most, usually with one medium paced run as the hardest workout--plus hockey. February I ran 6 times at the most; March about the same. April maybe 7 times then in May I ramped it up to at least 4 runs/week including one speed workout. I've been following a modified Hal Higdon 5k plan since then, going from a couple of runs/week at the most to 4-5/week including 400m reps and my weekly mileage going from maybe 8-10 miles/week to 19-25 miles/week with increased intensity.

I wonder if I'm doing more harm than good, especially with the 400m intervals. Maybe I should be working on 6+ months of easy/medium running with the occasional fartlek to keep me from getting stale before trying anything ambitious like 10X400m @ 5k goal pace?

Thanks all,

Andy

Hoser, I am by no means as expert as many on here, but I think you need to run more. Not trying to be a jerk.

You are running 4/7 days per week which is really only a MAINTAIN type of frequency.

Perhaps you could find some motivation in:

a) Trying to run every day for the next 21 days, or

b) Increasing your long run distance.

Having a history very much like you, I have taken great satisfaction in running 21 days in a row a couple of times. Now, I'm not always able to do that for various reasons (read excuses), but when I have put in a good stretch, my fitness has skyrocketed.

Anyway, here's an outline of a plan to consider.

1) Increase weekly long run to 7 miles. Just get through it.

2) Easy 2-3 mile day instead of rest

3) Run one 12-15 minute tempo run with warmup / warmdown. 4 miles.

4) Easy 3 mile day with strides

5) 5 miles moderate progression run with to the barn finish in last mile if you feel good.

6) Easy 5 mile day

7) Easy 2-3 mile day with strides instead of rest

This increases your mileage to ~30 miles and removes the 400s which I think you are running too quickly given your fitness level and increasing the potential for injury.

Yes, you will be sore all the time. At this age, most of us are sore most of the time.

Best of luck to you.

Ken

61 years old. Training in Phoenix is tough the next few days..maybe a week.

Ran 30 miles last week, and 5 miles the last 2 mornings with 5x200 at the end.

Scary hot by 10am.

Arizona Road Racer Summer Series is fun. Starting times usually 6am or 6:30.

4th of July race at Rio Vista Park, then short drive over to arena to watch the opening day of camp for Arizona Coyote rookies.

I also volunteer to set up start/finish line and registration area and help clean up afterwards.

Hope I don't fall asleep before the rookies hit the ice at 2pm.

Hope heat dissipates a little before then!

Thanks, Ken. I really appreciate the feedback and advice. For a long time I resisted running two days in a row, thinking it would lead to injury. Now I notice that I tend to feel better on those stretches where I run maybe 4 days in a row and I feel awkward on days I don't run. I'll see if I can step it up. Although I'm not willing to give up hockey yet, so it will have to take the place of one day of running.I'll let you know how things go. And I agree the 400s have to go--I'm not running them properly and I suspect they're doing more harm than good.

Reboot runner wrote:

Hoser, I am by no means as expert as many on here, but I think you need to run more. Not trying to be a jerk.

...

This increases your mileage to ~30 miles and removes the 400s which I think you are running too quickly given your fitness level and increasing the potential for injury.

Yes, you will be sore all the time. At this age, most of us are sore most of the time.

Best of luck to you.

Ken

Hey Hoser.

At 53 I had sub 20 5k well covered. I was racing at 165 to 167 ibs (5.10). I was much slower than you, 4.20 1500 and 33 10k as a young bloke. I had the advantage of not having stopped running at any stage.

I don't like to offer advice much these days as I am pretty much just running for fun but I will throw you my $2 worth.

Chill out and enjoy. Cruise around at a comfy pace. Make it interesting, run some challenging and scenic courses. Find some running buddies. Turn over the legs at some pace but don't make it a strict hard workout. Accumulate the fitness rather than chasing it. Keep enjoying the hockey.

Have fun. It will take time so enjoy the process and just keep persevering.

Igy here, 65 years old. I posted on the old Masters Running and Racing thread. Trying to make a masters come back after five plus years of injuries and life transitioning events (aging parents, etc.). Any recommendations for structuring your week? For example, tempo, intervals, repetitions, long runs. I have a good distance background, but more interested in 1500m and 5,000m at this age.

Igy

Hi Igy, we're not ignoring you. Most of us usually post on the weekend or Mondays (like mo'pak, who's on the wrong side of the international date line). I'm 66, ran a 20:12 5K in April, and have been trying to rebuild from a bad case of runner's knee since the end of April. I have more training philosophy than specific training recommendations.

It is my impression that for those of us who still are hanging in at this age, training becomes progressively more of an individualized structure dictated by our particular strengths and weaknesses. Some of us do better with a shorter higher intensity program, some with a long low intensity program, and others with their own optimal mix of both.

At this age the fundamental training principal is don't get injured. Simply getting a long block of uninterrupted training of almost any kind is the best thing you can do. This involves two elements that I rarely follow, be patient and be conservative in your training plan and goals.

My training usually is structured around our local Fall XC series which has 6-8 races from 5K to 8K, spread from mid-August to early November. When healthy I was running 6-7 days a week for 45-55 mpw. I am rethinking my training as I try to get healthy again. I was not doing much cross-training to build strength. I do row on a rowing machine for 20 minutes almost every day before running, which gives me a little aerobic work, but which I think mainly provides some core strength and good range of motion work for my legs. I think leg strength exercises become progressively more important for speed and injury prevention the older we get. I currently am doing a routine of lunges and squats to rebuild some strength that I had lost, and that lost strength probably was the primary cause of my knee injury. At our age I don't think you can maintain adequate leg strength anymore with just running. At least, I can't.

As far as specific workouts go, I think you have to experiment with how intensely you want to run them, and how quickly you recover from them. Sometimes I can manage 3 workouts per week, sometimes 2 seems challenging. Here is my current "healthy" training plan I am working back towards, I am going try a harder hard days, easier easy days approach.

M- 8 miles moderate pace with 16x :30 hard/:30 easy up a 2 mi road that climbs 800', starting 1.5 miles into the run.

T- 6 miles walking at 15:00/mi pace.

W- 12 miles, 2mi warm up, then 5x hard mile/ easy mile (this is the workout that I injured my knee on)

Th- 6 miles walking at 15:00/mi pace

F- 8 miles easy, or whatever I feel like doing if the 8 seems like too much

Sa- 11 mile progressive trail run - I run this with my son and daughter-in-law and hang on until they drop me. Two years ago I was fit enough to hang with my d-in-law (a high 17s 5Ker) for the whole run. Before my knee injury (and after a Dec. calf injury at XC Nats) I was hanging on for 6-8 miles and then getting steadily dropped. I really don't care if this run is optimal training or not. It is quality time with my kids.

Su- 6 miles walking at 15:00/mi pace or off depending on fatigue.

I hope this is some food for thought for you, and I am sure that some others will chime in soon with other good thoughts for you to consider.

Best of luck and enjoy the effort!

Old Guy II,

Thanks for the reply. I will post this week's specific workouts on Sunday to get some feedback. It really helps to have one of similar vintage; I turn 66 in September.

I was training more base in the first five months of the year, coming from very little running. Interestingly throughout my hiatus I have done much walking like yourself, and continue to do so. As I have increased my intensity I have need the rest days of less walking or zero activity. I am in Idaho, and we have out Senior Games in August. so the goal is to race 800m and 1500m.

The schedule I am on the past month is roughly this:

Monday: Tempo runs of 800m-1200m @ 8:00 pace with 2:00 rest.

Tuesday: 3 miles walking @ 18:00 pace

Wednesday: Intervals of 200m to 600m @ 6:40 pace with half distance slow jog between

Thursday: Rest

Friday: 3 mile walking @ 18:00 pace

Saturday: Repetitions of 100m to 500m @ 5:20-6:20 pace

Sunday: Rest

I was considering swimming and spin biking on the easy days, but as I eluded earlier at this point I need the rest. Weight is also an issue at this point, when I was racing well as a masters ten years ago I weighed in the 155-160 lbs range. Now I am 180-185 lbs. As someone retorted on another thread "you can't out run a fork."

Igy