Ship's problem in the DMR is that no one wanted to run it at PSACs apparently they definitely would've given LHU a run for their money put Gibson on the 8 or 12 leg and he would've handed off ahead of LHU in either then you have Matt Bee, Kehl, Usher and Spangler all at 1:57 or faster and Burleigh at 4:11 for the full mile so 4:08-09 for the 1600 leg and down goes LHU
But they didn't. And they wouldn't have. Bottom line is Burleigh can't race and would have folded against Monroe. The Ship guys are far short of their traditions and they need to step it up. They have a great coach and great program and they are pissing it away (int he distances that is) Mean while the little school that could keep churning out NCAA qualifiers.
I don't understand how they are pissing anything away. The last decade Ship has been the 3rd best distance program in the conference. LHU and Boro have consistently beaten them in cross country and over 5k/10k.
Ship has had the best mid distance program the last 5 years and proved that again this year with winning the 4x8, 2-3 in the mile, 2nd in the 3k, 2 scorers in the 800 and the B team getting 3rd in the DMR. Over 40 points in the middie events.
With the lone exception of Stetler, it has been 20 years since Ship has had an exceptional "long distance" runner. This team is carrying on the established modus operandi from Ship's distance/mid-distance group.
good point Bryan Beegle really struggled in the long distance events and cross country
Beegle is a perfect of example of the point I'm making.
Sub 4:10 indoor miler. Sub 14:30 Indoor 5k with an NCAA runner up and DMR title in one weekend.
Outdoor PRs of 14:40 and 32:30 with no NCAA XC honors.
Ship makes great middies, and those great middies occasionally step up to XC or 10k and pop a race (Gillette 17th in Joplin) but they don't produce consistent high quality 5k and 10k (or XC)guys the way Haven and Boro do.
south of the border wrote:
But they didn't. And they wouldn't have. Bottom line is Burleigh can't race and would have folded against Monroe. The Ship guys are far short of their traditions and they need to step it up. They have a great coach and great program and they are pissing it away (int he distances that is) Mean while the little school that could keep churning out NCAA qualifiers.
From the way Gibson raced this weekend it would have been interesting to see what he would have been able to do if was put on the anchor leg of the DMR. He's definitely a championship racer
Altius wrote:
He's definitely a championship racer
For sure. How are those mile and 800 titles he won looking?
Can't we all just get along? Nick raced fine and had some good performances out there, give him some credit.
what?? wrote:
I don't understand how they are pissing anything away. The last decade Ship has been the 3rd best distance program in the conference. LHU and Boro have consistently beaten them in cross country and over 5k/10k.
Ship has had the best mid distance program the last 5 years and proved that again this year with winning the 4x8, 2-3 in the mile, 2nd in the 3k, 2 scorers in the 800 and the B team getting 3rd in the DMR. Over 40 points in the middie events.
With the lone exception of Stetler, it has been 20 years since Ship has had an exceptional "long distance" runner. This team is carrying on the established modus operandi from Ship's distance/mid-distance group.
Its probably the fact Shippensburg trains its athletes in two distinct groups Mile/3k and 5k/10K. Each group trains much differently. People like Neyhart, Beegle, Schlander and Gillette all trained as milers and that was their focus. None of those guys ever made the 5k, let alone the 10k their primary focus. This strategy paid off for them and turned them into great "championship" style racers who could close any race in the 55-56 second range.
Guys like Stetler who trained in the 5k / 10k group ran and developed very well under the 5k / 10k training plan. During the last 4 years though, Ship really hasn't had the best recruiting classes in terms of raw talent. However, the athletes that do come in and train in this group have had tremendous personal success.
It just isnt accurate to lump all distance runners into one category. Its the same principal as expecting a 1:48 800 guy to run a 13:50 5k.... thats not how it works. That 1:48 800 guy may be able to run a 4:10 Mile, but as the distance increases, the training is not compatable enough to be successful at the longer distances - so there is no sensing competing at those distances. It makes even less sense to label Ships "Distance" program as lacking based on performances of athletes who are not even focusing on those events. I'd bet that if athletes of the likes of Beegle, Schelander or Gillette trained for the 5k / 10k, they could have been highly successful.
Bottom line is: Both training programs work for Ship, but the top end recuits over the past 6 or 7 years have all chosen the way of the 1500 / Mile. Ultimately Ship has sacraficed the 5k / 10k to thrive in mid-distance events... that doesn't mean its a poor distance program - its allocation of resources - where can you score the MOST points. When you look at all three seasons, the number of team championships speaks volumes of Ships program.
The only sentence in that post that really matters is "Ultimately Ship has sacraficed the 5k/10k to thrive in the mid-distance events".
Thats been my whole point. Ship's tradition is to win the mid-distance events. They are still the best mid-distance program in the conference. That is their tradition and they are carrying it out, not pissing it away as one poster suggested.
God, they scored over 200 points and just about doubled 2nd place. Their program is deep, balanced and strong. No need to rip on a specific event area. The rest of the league has a long way to go to catch them. Not happening anytime soon.
Ship just signed another transfer that ran 1:52 and 4:05 this indoor season. Looks like they are going to continue to dominate the mid distance events for a couple more years....
Ed Buck.
RelishIt wrote:
Ship just signed another transfer that ran 1:52 and 4:05 this indoor season. Looks like they are going to continue to dominate the mid distance events for a couple more years....
You mean like Burliegh? You how he was supposed to be unbeatable. Yeah, I remember that.
RelishIt wrote:
Ship just signed another transfer that ran 1:52 and 4:05 this indoor season. Looks like they are going to continue to dominate the mid distance events for a couple more years....
Who would this be and where did you hear that from?
how about mike robinson being the first guy to ever win both the mile and 800 at psacs, with two nasty dirty kicks. burleigh had a full head of steam in that lap of the mile and robinson just made him look silly, that was unbelievable.
Haha Ed Buck! Great stuff. Is that guy still running sub par times at big events? Which brings up a good point- any PSAC alumni doing anything with themselves?
thatguyovertherewiththeface wrote:
how about mike robinson being the first guy to ever win both the mile and 800 at psacs, with two nasty dirty kicks. burleigh had a full head of steam in that lap of the mile and robinson just made him look silly, that was unbelievable.
Burleigh is perhaps the dumbest racer in the PSAC right now. Big shock if he makes it out of trials
Yes 2nd place in the mile to the Best miler in the conference (Robinson) and 2nd place in the 3k to the best 5k runner in the conference (Monroe) shows he doesn't know how to race..... Maybe he just got beat by better runners at PSAC's
When you come in with PRs like his it is.