What do you expect would happen? Start a war by launching a terrorist attack and expect to pay the consequences
Correct. Israel began as a terrorist attack back in '48 and has been dealing with the consequences ever since: unstinting resistance, and now, international ignominy.
Israel is finished in all but name.
Compare Tel Aviv to Gaza city. Which is finished? But it should be a moot point anyway when the Trump Gaza Riviera and Islands are built, alongside the Elon Musk smart manufacturing zone and the MBS highway. It will become the crown jewel of the Middle East.
Correct. Israel began as a terrorist attack back in '48 and has been dealing with the consequences ever since: unstinting resistance, and now, international ignominy.
Israel is finished in all but name.
Compare Tel Aviv to Gaza city. Which is finished? But it should be a moot point anyway when the Trump Gaza Riviera and Islands are built, alongside the Elon Musk smart manufacturing zone and the MBS highway. It will become the crown jewel of the Middle East.
Correct again. Israel will soon be relying on such reputable players as Musk, MBS, the UAE, and the Trumps for its economic survival.
And we'll see what interest any of THEM has in following through on their projects when, post-Trump, Israel's fate as a global pariah state is cemented. It will be one of the last places in the world one would go to do reputable business. Surveillance and death-tech will be the only thing it has to offer. We're going to get a chance to see what would have happened had South African doubled-down on apartheid!
As for the Palestinians, they will survive, and they always have, with their honor intact.
It's better than it was, but it's amazing (and terrible) what damage those initial lies did. It's not an exaggeration to say that they led to 10s of thousands of additional detentions, tortures, and deaths.
This is all made worse by the fact-- now made official by the NYT, which itself stands credibly accused of pro-Israel bias-- that Israel had been torturing, raping, and starving Palestinian detainees (on top of executing children in the field) the whole time.
the poster starting the thread is "no troops on the ground" and that's why we're stuck where we are. they seemed to assume "venezuela," which i think was a negotiated handover, not a war at all.
That isn't an accurate depiction of history. It is a biased interpretation that simply expresses your animosity towards Israel. Your argument that the Palestinian and Arab reaction to Israel is justified by what Israel has done could also apply in reverse. Israel's actions are also a response to those who would wish to destroy it. There are no 'good guys' in this conflict.
Explain to me exactly how it applies "in reverse"?
Palestinian Arabs have subjected to a continual process of colonial massacres, rape, terror, and displacement dating to at least the 1930s. And this after having lived peaceably alongside Arab Jews for a couple of centuries.
Not very long ago, the notion that Israel was a necessarily violent colonial project was relatively uncontroversial. You only need to spend a little time reviewing the language of Israel's founders to understand this. Start with Ben Gurion.
And Israel's violent colonialism was uncontroversial at the time because it was piggybacked on British colonialism, then protected by American neo-colonialism during the Cold War.
All of the egregious Israeli lies about Palestinians having provoked their own displacement are relatively recent concoctions, born out of necessity to sell their project to an American and European public grown critical of 20C colonialism. Only the willfully ignorant are, in 2026, still repeating its propaganda.
I said both sides have used classic terror tactics, but this is where the similarities end. One side is a modern, armed-to-the-teeth, regional power, and the other is a lightly equipped urban guerilla insurgency fighting simply to remain in place. And where it is not armed at all (i.e. the WB) it is having its land openly stolen as we speak.
Explain to me how the threat posed to Israeli Jews by Palestinians justifies what has been and what continues to be done to them as a people.
What Palestinians have done to Israelis is not being used as a justification for Israel's response - no more than what Israel has done to Palestinians justifies the attacks on Israel. What you disregard is that Israel is a sovereign nation with a right to exist - just like yours - and the Arab world for decades refused to accept that and were committed to its destruction. Israel has had superior military power over its adversaries, including of course the Palestinians, but that hasn't meant the Arabs and Palestinians have had any less enmity towards Israel. After the Camp David Accords it appeared both sides were making progress towards peace but that has been lost by a failure of leadership on both sides. There is nothing that makes Hamas 'better' than Netanyahu.
Hamas also raped Israeli women when it attacked Israel and took hostages. But you only ever see the evil on one side.
Just like the stories about beheading and cooking babies, no concrete evidence of rape on Oct 7 has been adduced. Could rape have occurred? Of course. But it is now highly unlikely that it could have been either widespread or systematic.
But in Israeli jails and prisons, it has been widespread, systematic, officially condoned, and publicly celebrated! This is not surprising, since rape has been an Israeli military tactic dating back to at least the Deir Yassim massacre in 1948.
Your dismissal of what Hamas did is its own form of propaganda. But you like the propaganda of one side. Brutality doesn't have to be "widespread" or "systemic" to be brutality. That was the Hamas attack on Israel. This isn't a competition to decide who is worst at that.
The US has fought more wars and murdered more innocents since 1945 than Israel has. So you should hate the US.
While you're not strictly wrong, the US has also played an enormous role as the primary global social benefactor since 1945 up until the current administration. Thus while it's been a mixed bag, I think most of the world would have viewed the US far more positively than Israel over that time period.
I would agree with some of that but how the world views the US has changed dramatically under this administration. The US has no pretensions to being a benign actor now.
What do you expect would happen? Start a war by launching a terrorist attack and expect to pay the consequences
Correct. Israel began as a terrorist attack back in '48 and has been dealing with the consequences ever since: unstinting resistance, and now, international ignominy.
Israel is finished in all but name.
Israel was recognized as a nation by the UN in 1947. The "terrorist attack" was the subsequent invasion by five Arab armies in 1948.
Israel is not "finished" when it has superior military power to its adversaries - including nuclear weapons.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
“For Iran, the Clock is Ticking, and they better get moving, FAST, or there won’t be anything left of them. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE!” - President Donald J. Trump
Well, back from 2 weeks vacation. Oil at $105, market close to highs, Hormuz still closed, no agreement with Iran, useless China visit.
Each week the oil market is not normal now really starts to cause structural problems.
I'll watch what goes on today, but it looks like move is to go long oil and short the market again.
No brainer yet there has been massive manipulation to shore up the market and keep oil prices from soaring (although they have oddly soared at the pumps)