Point is you can dope without looking like a steroids guzzling bodybuilder. But then you have the obvious (East German swim team, the current 800m WR holder, Barry Bond's head (lol), etc), where it is physically impossible to miss.
We are closing this thread to new posts. The new Wiley thread is here:
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Faster Wiley wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Your argument is ultimately that no progression raises the question of possible doping.
That's a good argument, because it's 100 percent true.
Jim Ryun went from a 5:38 mile in cross country season, to a 4:08 mile a few months later.
No, he didn't. He ran 5.38 in his first effort as a 14 year-old. He ran 4.08 some years later.
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Daily update wrote:
We want an update Rojo!
Did you make contact? Set an agent straight? Get Addy removed from the meet? Ruin her chances at a major contract? or do you not have the juice? The clock is ticking as it’s late afternoon in Europe. You don’t have time for your usual clickbait posts if you still intend to meddle in the affairs of America’s next middle distance star. Tick tock.
Maybe he's been too busy posting on this thread.
I still think astro is rojo, because astro never gets banned, and maybe Armstronglivs too.
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astro wrote:
Point is you can dope without looking like a steroids guzzling bodybuilder. But then you have the obvious (East German swim team, the current 800m WR holder, Barry Bond's head (lol), etc), where it is physically impossible to miss.
Add Parker Valby to the list too, I think.
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farsis wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
No. But if the improvements go far beyond the rate of improvements of other highly-trained athletes it should raise the question of how was this naturally achievable. This is especially so today, when doping is in every sport.
This statement is so vague that it could be applied to literally any runner who managed to improve.
No, it couldn't. If that were so you would have no idea what you mean when you use the term "normal". But perhaps you don't. Perhaps it means anything, to you - no matter how unusual or extreme. I suspect it does.
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I see what is happening here. You are all trying to hide the posts asking Rojo to back up his statements on the podcast that he was texting with Addy’s agent. And that he was going to interfere in her ability to get a contract.
Try to hide it all you want, it will be the topic of the day. Rojo has to provide answers soon or The Diamond League results will speak for his abilities and juice in the sport.
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Again putting aside all the HU scandal issues, it is a matter of statistical norms. As an analogy think of the steroids era in baseball where the likes of Brady Anderson was suddenly hitting 50 hrs a season, something that should have tipped everyone off that something was odd. Here you have decades of data about rates of maturation and the high school times that female runners achieve. Suddenly, and in a manner nowhere suggested by her prior times, a runner improves well beyond the standard deviation, suddenly running a time that was 7 seconds faster than any other 1600m ever run at that level and which was 10 seconds faster than the athlete's previous pr achieved at the end of her junior year as an upperclassman. The only mitigation was that it was being paced and there was a draft effect issue, but it was in all events a very strange time. That is why it would be suspect even without the scandal.
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astro wrote:
I never bought the doping "look". Cyclists took everyrhing under the sun and looked thin as a rail. It is rhe chemical effects that matter.
Okay I gave you an upvote for this post. I agree, Valby is just blessed with god tier genetics.
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Faster Wiley wrote:
Daily update wrote:
We want an update Rojo!
Did you make contact? Set an agent straight? Get Addy removed from the meet? Ruin her chances at a major contract? or do you not have the juice? The clock is ticking as it’s late afternoon in Europe. You don’t have time for your usual clickbait posts if you still intend to meddle in the affairs of America’s next middle distance star. Tick tock.
Maybe he's been too busy posting on this thread.
I still think astro is rojo, because astro never gets banned, and maybe Armstronglivs too.
You don't think.
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farsis wrote:
astro wrote:
Point is you can dope without looking like a steroids guzzling bodybuilder. But then you have the obvious (East German swim team, the current 800m WR holder, Barry Bond's head (lol), etc), where it is physically impossible to miss.
Add Parker Valby to the list too, I think.
Here you are talking about the "nandrolone look":42 -
Armstronglivs wrote:
No, he didn't. He ran 5.38 in his first effort as a 14 year-old. He ran 4.08 some years later.
You are wrong again.
I lived less than 15 miles from Wichita East at the time and often trained with Timmons and the team.
Ryun ran a 5:38 time trial at the start of cross country season, then ended up 6th at the state cross country meet.
In the first track meet in spring he ran 4:32.4, only 2 tenths behind the defending state champion in the mile. Two weeks later he beat that defending state champion in 4:26. At the end of track season he ran 4:16 to win the state championship in the mile, and a few weeks later ran 4:08 in an open track meet against college competition.
Therefore, yes, Ryun went from 5:30 to 4:08 in the mile in just a few months.
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Daily update wrote:
Let’s get back on topic. Rojo promised he was going to call a super agent who had been texting him and make sure he was up to speed on all things Huntington. I believe we all want an update on that call. Both those like myself who think Wiley will be the distance version of Allyson Felix representing the US positively and making huge difference in her community….well…and the Astro Acolytes hate typing away from their childhood homes and letting their Mom’s know they will be ready for meatloaf soon.
We want an update Rojo!
Did you make contact? Set an agent straight? Get Addy removed from the meet? Ruin her chances at a major contract? or do you not have the juice? The clock is ticking as it’s late afternoon in Europe. You don’t have time for your usual clickbait posts if you still intend to meddle in the affairs of America’s next middle distance star. Tick tock.
Yeah, I thought that was extremely odd for Rojo to say as well. I believe for sure that he would attempt to influence outcomes for people based on what he thinks he knows because it's just human nature for many to be a karen and try to exert power in some way. But, I was very surprised that he would come out and say it.
Just consider ALL of the great runners who have been dragged on these boards. Now they can all rest assured that Rojo has been working behind the scenes to impact their careers based on all the truth that can be gleaned from the forum.
Needless to say, Rojo should avoid inserting himself in this precarious way. However, if his best friend inquired with Rojo what he thinks about the Wiley situation, I don't know how he would determine anything definitively beyond that she's unfortunately found herself in a messy situation that has made her somewhat of a polarizing figure to far extreme running geeks.
What more should be said?
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This quoted post has been removed.
We are talking about college athletes here, not children - who might accept a "vitamins" explanation for suddenly feeling superhuman.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
You don't think.
I do think, and I think that you don't think.
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astro wrote:
Again putting aside all the HU scandal issues, it is a matter of statistical norms. As an analogy think of the steroids era in baseball where the likes of Brady Anderson was suddenly hitting 50 hrs a season, something that should have tipped everyone off that something was odd. Here you have decades of data about rates of maturation and the high school times that female runners achieve. Suddenly, and in a manner nowhere suggested by her prior times, a runner improves well beyond the standard deviation, suddenly running a time that was 7 seconds faster than any other 1600m ever run at that level and which was 10 seconds faster than the athlete's previous pr achieved at the end of her junior year as an upperclassman. The only mitigation was that it was being paced and there was a draft effect issue, but it was in all events a very strange time. That is why it would be suspect even without the scandal.
The 1600m is not very frequently run. Cain's mile record is even a bit faster in conversion than Wiley's 1600 (I think). A 10s PR is not that strange in high school. I'm just not sure what else to say on this topic. If a runner other than Wiley accomplished this, I would not find it suspicious.
I understand the HU scandal makes her suspicious, but her progression is not suspicious.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
farsis wrote:
This statement is so vague that it could be applied to literally any runner who managed to improve.
No, it couldn't. If that were so you would have no idea what you mean when you use the term "normal". But perhaps you don't. Perhaps it means anything, to you - no matter how unusual or extreme. I suspect it does.
So what is a "normal" progression. Please describe it in detail. Let's say a HS girl runs 4:26 her senior year, what sort of times should she be running in the previous 3 years?
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Agree to disagree. When it gets to Cain, an athlete I followed in high school, unfortunately you start running into the Salazar issue.
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Normal is whatever Tuohy did and abnormal is what any other high level runner did.
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