Cross-Canada record attempt, 7200K - 66 days. Current record by Al Howie 72 days

Wow!

What happened?

Just back from a trip and trying to catch up with this Trans Con effort.

P.S: I am one of Jesse's finishers.

jesseriley wrote:

I know Yiannis Kouros, Wolfgang Schwerk, Dusan Mravlje. Dave Proctor isn’t in their class.

I totally agree. I ran with all three of them (well kind of).

Dave Proctor had not much experience just some good results. His comments that it should be easy to beat Al Howie's record, showed that he had no clue what he was talking about.

Running a great 24 hour race is one thing. Running for 1-2 month in a row a total other thing.

With a failed 6 day race and a way to fast start in this Trans Con record attempt, Dave Proctor showed that he had not really the knowledge for such an record attempt.

Banana Bread wrote:

Bekele would do this in under 50 days

On a bicycle, sure Bekele could do it.

Hi Markus,

I tried to tell them to slow down & gradually their endurance will grow. As you know, even if the event is poorly organized (like Australia), the ability to cover long distances is already within us.

jesseriley wrote:

Hi Markus,

I tried to tell them to slow down & gradually their endurance will grow. As you know, even if the event is poorly organized (like Australia), the ability to cover long distances is already within us.

Jesse,

As almost always, good runners overestimate what they can do on a day to day basis. Dave Proctor had no real multiday running experience and his performance in a 6 day race was already an indicator since he started to fast too. In a pod cast interview he was already dreaming of running a new 6 day record. It always looks so easy on paper. 107 kms per day, how hard can it be? ;-)

Why do you think Dave cheated?

I tried to read most posts here but I still haven't seen any signs of that.

Actually I based it partly on your trans America (which is more typical). One slows down, stops, takes 2-3 zero days & returns at a slower pace. Dave slowed down & crashed, but then ramped up to 110 kms in 12 hours each day, without a single rest day! Unprecedented & unlikely & ultimately unbelievable.

Additionally, his recent form had been poor; he claimed faster times in training than in races; he seemed uncomfortable running on roads; he brought no multiday runners to advise (even from afar); he contacted people before the run to try & cut the course; they chopped off 3 pages of this message board to prevent any dialogue & also impersonated me; they hadn’t heard of me or read my published articles on Al’s run (a virtual playbook & roadmap); etc.

jesseriley wrote:

Additionally, his recent form had been poor; he claimed faster times in training than in races; he seemed uncomfortable running on roads; he brought no multiday runners to advise (even from afar); he contacted people before the run to try & cut the course; they chopped off 3 pages of this message board to prevent any dialogue & also impersonated me; they hadn’t heard of me or read my published articles on Al’s run (a virtual playbook & roadmap); etc.

back spewing BS again after this is over

-Where did he claim faster times in training?

- he has no issue with roads (he trains on an indoor track in winter so flat/boring terrain is no issue. I had suggested that maybe running on the side of the road hurt his back but I'm not dave and just a thought from afar

- Yes, he did. He talked extensively with Pete Kostelnick a year leading up to this event and in some ways guided his strategy (That's why so similar to Pete's run)

- yeah of course they chopped your posts....i think at one point you had 2 straight pages of posts with no one else responding to your nonsense.

show me where he said it would be "easy". He said he thought he could break the record and of course he would say that. If he said he couldn't, why attempt it??

I think he prepared as well as he could for this without actually attempting it before. Yes, his back didn't hold up but before that you have to admit he was doing great. I think from Calgary to Manitoba he was doing the ~110km a day and all was going smoothly until that herniated disc

Markus wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

Hi Markus,

I tried to tell them to slow down & gradually their endurance will grow. As you know, even if the event is poorly organized (like Australia), the ability to cover long distances is already within us.

Jesse,

As almost always, good runners overestimate what they can do on a day to day basis. Dave Proctor had no real multiday running experience and his performance in a 6 day race was already an indicator since he started to fast too. In a pod cast interview he was already dreaming of running a new 6 day record. It always looks so easy on paper. 107 kms per day, how hard can it be? ;-)

Why do you think Dave cheated?

I tried to read most posts here but I still haven't seen any signs of that.

Exactly...over 40 pages of posts and not one piece of evidence for cheating. Jesse just didn't understand the difference between the live tracker (which is for entertainment and not real gps) and his real GPS watch data. Whenever the tracker would stall or not work he accused of cheating. If you actually spent the time going through the thread, you'd see his delusional/troll like posts without any substance to back up his "red flags"

My attempt at 26:17 is great for a lap. It seems to go smoothly until the 2nd lap and my legs feel like there doing a vindaloo poo

Banana Bread wrote:

My attempt at 26:17 is great for a lap. It seems to go smoothly until the 2nd lap and my legs feel like there doing a vindaloo poo

not really relevant to this situation.

a better comparison would be if you could beat Bekele's 1,500m and 3,000m times (like Dave beat Al's 24hr, 48 and 72 hr times) and then attempt to beat his 10,000m time you may think you have a chance

Tron wrote:

show me where he said it would be "easy". He said he thought he could break the record and of course he would say that. If he said he couldn't, why attempt it??

I think he prepared as well as he could for this without actually attempting it before. Yes, his back didn't hold up but before that you have to admit he was doing great. I think from Calgary to Manitoba he was doing the ~110km a day and all was going smoothly until that herniated disc

The interview is here:

Actually Dave was not prepared as he could. He didn't have at least one successful 6 day race in his book. Just a "going out fast crash early" result from 1.5 years ago.

I still have to look at the numbers from the last 3 weeks but Dave did not do great in the beginning. Started out very fast with too many miles. His main flaw was that he ran too fast. You have to run multiday races with the least amount of stress to your body. If he would have done the same mileage with 2 more hours it probably would have been better.

Pete Kostelnick had a successful run through Iowa I think a couple years back. After too many miles in the first days, he adjusted nicely with (what I thought was a weird ass move) a day of no running. It worked. After that he ran 72-74 miles every day.

At the end you can't copy other peoples running since you only have your own body to work with. The art is to make the most out of your body without breaking it. That is the most important skill set for a multiday runner. 24 hour results are meaningless for that. Some of the most successful 6 day runners where not very good in 24 hour races.

As always, this is very difficult to explain to non multiday runners. Even most 100 mile and 24 hour runners overestimate what they can do on a day to day basis.

jesseriley wrote:

Actually I based it partly on your trans America (which is more typical). One slows down, stops, takes 2-3 zero days & returns at a slower pace. Dave slowed down & crashed, but then ramped up to 110 kms in 12 hours each day, without a single rest day! Unprecedented & unlikely & ultimately unbelievable.

I still have to look at the numbers but it could be possible, even if it's unlikely.

There is also a huge difference in running strategy from a Trans Continental stage race to a non stop effort with an own crew.

But deleting post from people who are questioning a record attempt is never a good thing. You need full transparency. At the end the runner as to prove that he did it, not the other way around.

Tron wrote:

...

a better comparison would be if you could beat Bekele's 1,500m and 3,000m times (like Dave beat Al's 24hr, 48 and 72 hr times) and then attempt to beat his 10,000m time you may think you have a chance

I think that all of Al's 48 and 72 hour performance were splits. In the 90ies there was only one 48 hour race in France and 72 hours was non existing. 6 day performances you have to measure against and that is won by Al easily with 226 km more than Dave's performance.

Most important are Al's performances at the SCMT multiday races over 1300 miles. Al was the first to actually finishing it.

Al Howie's Trans Canada performance is one of the all time best performances in multiday running in my opinion. Just because it was done in 1991 does not mean that anyone can beat this easily today.

Yes, we must worship & believe, because he’s our Savior...it’s creepy

but as you say, a 24hr or a 6 day race even is not the same as crossing the country. I think Dave was fit enough and this wasn't a last minute decision as it's been planned for almost 2 years. I don't think that 6-day race was necessarily the indicator on whether this run would be a success or not

I have listened to that before and never heard him say easy but could have missed it so you can point it out where, that would be great. From talking to Dave, he certainly never said it would be an easy task.

Well, I'd agree with you that his first day was too far and fast although I don't think that was the downfall of this attempt. He dealt with some shin tendinitis after that (cut a couple days short around Revelstoke to get treatment and then got to Golden approx. 1 day behind his original schedule....so he did adjust and sort himself out that first week.

I ran and talked to him for part of his Golden to lake Louise day and he was starting to feel pretty good at that point as he felt his body was adjusting to the daily running. A few days later in Calgary he again said his body was feeling good and from that point to close to Manitoba he was going at a decent pace and doing the roughly 110km a day. If you look at his Strava on July 17...I believe that's when his back starting bothering him. At that point, unless he took a week or so off, I had a feeling that was the end.

So yeah, it didn't end well but he still did over 3 weeks in a row and got over the half way point in Canada. Obviously not his goal but still impressive distance in that time. I hope he heals and learns what he can from this attempt. I doubt he would do another attempt at crossing Canada but I guess never know.

Markus wrote:

I think that all of Al's 48 and 72 hour performance were splits. In the 90ies there was only one 48 hour race in France and 72 hours was non existing. 6 day performances you have to measure against and that is won by Al easily with 226 km more than Dave's performance.

not really as Dave's 6 day total was done in 4 days....he dropped out due to an infected blister, and since it was only 6 months before this attempt he didn't want to risk further injury that would harm his prep for crossing Canada. Yes you can say this is his inexperience, etc ....but still can't compare Al and Dave's 6 day ability from that