Would they be able to ping fake data points every two minutes? Sandy's data, and Pete's data, were both on the Garmin website. Sandy's is here. If Garmin real-time GPS data could be faked then Gamin should add some way to prevent that. That seems to imply that the satellite link was being hacked.
Yes, in theory you can fake the GPS ping for a Garmin Inreach device every two minutes or however often you want. Take a look at Garmin's web API documentation for their Inreach service. There is nothing encrypted about it and there is nothing special sent that you can't automatically send from your computer. From a brief look, it looks like authentication is even sent over HTTP and not encrypted. In fact, you don't even need a Garmin device. Any computer would work.
Garmin can't really fix spoof GPS data for their Inreach service with how it is set up. The only way you could get some level of trust would be to build special hardware GPS trackers that have special unique encryption keys built inside and encased in tamper proof epoxy to prevent tampering to extract the encryption keys. The GPS data would then be encrypted right on the device and only then would a manufacturer be able to tell you if a GPS file is authentic.
If writing an app to submit live Garmin data is not within somebodies skillset, there are also third party companies offering services to fake data like in the link below.
As for me, what time should I try to spoof on Strava for my record run across America (male)? I think it will be fun to see how authentic I can fake it. I also think I'm going to spoof a 3:30 mile to show that it can be done and Strava/GPS evidence alone is not proof in of itself.
https://forums.garmin.com/forum/on-the-trail/inreach/inreach-web-api/147452-faq
Scam_Watcheroo wrote:
With Mimi's data, there are more inconsistencies than Sandra's and I would feel more comfortable if there were some unannounced checks. I really do wonder if those extraordinary heart rate data from Mimi's runs on Strava is the result of somebody on her team preprocessing her files before uploading. It is trivial to open up a GPX or Tcx file and edit away since it is just plain XML.
ignore the heart rate data for Mimi. its from an optical sensor in the watch and these things are so unreliable that i dont know why anyone even bothers with them.
they read differently for different people in different conditions and often lock on to candence instead of heart rate.
also, Mimi said that Suunto had given her 4 watches and she would be wearing 2 at a time (one on each wrist), so that may explain the uploading of 2 very similar data files.
she talks more about tracking and validating her run in a MarathonTalk interview.
its all kinda vague though and i dont remember most of it but if you're interested you can listen here.
https://marathontalk.com/shows/episode-400-mimi-anderson/i think both ladies are legit but agree that the Pete/Sandy method should be the required standard.
Scam_Watcheroo wrote:
As for me, what time should I try to spoof on Strava for my record run across America (male)? I think it will be fun to see how authentic I can fake it. I also think I'm going to spoof a 3:30 mile to show that it can be done and Strava/GPS evidence alone is not proof in of itself.
How about spoofing someone else's data to jerk them over?
too legit to quit wrote:
Mimi said that Suunto had given her 4 watches and she would be wearing 2 at a time (one on each wrist), so that may explain the uploading of 2 very similar data files.
Hmmm, today Mimi has two different Strava results. The data is the same except the time of the run is nearly 40 minutes different. Is the Sunnto ready for prime time?
Wow, just wow, is all I have to say at this juncture.
If one could actually spoof the real-time Garmin, let alone the weak Strava (delayed upload) data file, then all these single-effort extreme endurance stunts become suspect.
Assemble a tight-knit conspiratorial team (support crew) for the bigger attention-getting stunts, like a Guinness World Record attempt? Well, the possible motivation, besides basic attention seeking, would be for participating team members to reciprocate and help each other with their own goofy extreme endurance stunts in the future. 'Sponsors' (i.e., shoe sponsors, gel sponsors, etc.) latch onto each of the attention-getters to garner even more attention for their product. Indeed, look how many authentic sponsors latched onto the previous RY fraud.
wow, just wow wrote:
Wow, just wow, is all I have to say at this juncture.
Yeah, that's my same impression right now. I didn't really think before this how relatively easily I would go about spoofing Strava for a transcon or for live GPS. But a bit of Googling reveals a lot of information. It will be interesting to see how fake-authentic I will be with computer assisted world record runs.
Having live/recorded video of the run would go a long ways to mitigating GPS spoofing and probably something that should be done anyways for historical records. Should be simple to have a camera hooked up to a hard drive in the RV or support car.
wow, just wow wrote:
'Sponsors' (i.e., shoe sponsors, gel sponsors, etc.) latch onto each of the attention-getters to garner even more attention for their product. Indeed, look how many authentic sponsors latched onto the previous RY fraud.
And think of the book-writing opportunities, the Oprah circuit, etc. Dean K. was a model for the marketing angles. He produced yet another book on the 50 marathons in 50 days in 50 states (https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/50-50-dean-karnazes/1103745023#/)? And yet, both of these women are claiming TWICE that distance per day, for over 50 days!
Scam_Watcheroo wrote:
wow, just wow wrote:Wow, just wow, is all I have to say at this juncture.
Yeah, that's my same impression right now. I didn't really think before this how relatively easily I would go about spoofing Strava for a transcon or for live GPS. But a bit of Googling reveals a lot of information. It will be interesting to see how fake-authentic I will be with computer assisted world record runs.
Wow, that is neat you have the skill-set to do that. If you are going to spoof a Transcon effort for dramatic affect and education, then go big; maybe "From Coast-to-Coast-Coast'.....in 50 DAYS!"
meant "Coast-to-Coast-to-Coast". Rim-to-Rim-to-Rim (Grand Canyon) has already been done.
At the end you can't really proof this kind of run. You have to believe it, or you don't. Journey runs like this always need the back up of real races. Both, Mimi and Sandra have that. There is no reason at this point to believe that they are faking anything.
Can I prove it? Of course not.
Scam_Watcheroo wrote:
wow, just wow wrote:Wow, just wow, is all I have to say at this juncture.
Yeah, that's my same impression right now. I didn't really think before this how relatively easily I would go about spoofing Strava for a transcon or for live GPS. But a bit of Googling reveals a lot of information. It will be interesting to see how fake-authentic I will be with computer assisted world record runs.
Having live/recorded video of the run would go a long ways to mitigating GPS spoofing and probably something that should be done anyways for historical records. Should be simple to have a camera hooked up to a hard drive in the RV or support car.
Well, not just for transcon but every single runner who uses Strava. Even a run around the block could be faked.
In terms of live recording, how about using a drone to take video?
Anyway, it looks like the goal of most posters here is to come up with a more bullet proof way to track run data; marathons, trail runs, even personal training runs. For hobbyjoggers no reason to track them, but some people yes--like Gerry Lingren's infamous 16:08 for a 4 mile training run.
Markus wrote:
At the end you can't really proof this kind of run. You have to believe it, or you don't. Journey runs like this always need the back up of real races. Both, Mimi and Sandra have that. There is no reason at this point to believe that they are faking anything.
Can I prove it? Of course not.
It's a cat and mouse game but I think with how cheap smartphones are these days, having a moderate resolution video of all the runs in a transcon is easily doable and should be the gold standard of proof, rather than easily altered Strava data. With video, you can verify all the miles and speed from road markings and landmarks and is extremely difficult to spoof convincingly.
I also don't think Sandra or Mimi are faking anything at this point but for me, it would be so tempting to just spoof the Strava and take a few pictures along the way, making sure not to take pictures of extended side trips a la Rob Young.
Spoofing data for Mimi would be 100x easier than spoofing data for Sandy. Strava is easily manipulated, real-time Garmin data is not.
Markus wrote:
At the end you can't really proof this kind of run. You have to believe it, or you don't. Journey runs like this always need the back up of real races. Both, Mimi and Sandra have that. There is no reason at this point to believe that they are faking anything.
Can I prove it? Of course not.
There is no question that they can go out and jog multi-day races. I haven't looked in detail, but take for instance some of Mimi's claims, like a Double Sparta. Now a Sparta is a normal race, with checkpoints. But what is a DoubleSparta? Is that another make up your own, self-monitored event (along with all of the adulation and attention that comes with it)?
^(a RED FLAG event)
excuze me wrote:
But what is a DoubleSparta? Is that another make up your own, self-monitored event (along with all of the adulation and attention that comes with it)?
^(a RED FLAG event)
Or, yet again, a DoubleBadwater?!? Is there such a thing? Who officiates that?
^(RED FLAG event)
"DOUBLE GRAND UNION CANAL RACE – 2013"
Double Grand Union Canal Race? Is there such a thing?
Was that when the sponsors really started jumping on the gravy train attention-getter, and the book deal(s) started?
Folks, are we seeing a pattern here?
Another blow for the Sandy fan boys
45.9 miles in almost 14 hours.
too legit to quit wrote:
also, Mimi said that Suunto had given her 4 watches and she would be wearing 2 at a time (one on each wrist), so that may explain the uploading of 2 very similar data files.
she talks more about tracking and validating her run in a MarathonTalk interview.
its all kinda vague though and i dont remember most of it but if you're interested you can listen here.
https://marathontalk.com/shows/episode-400-mimi-anderson/i think both ladies are legit but agree that the Pete/Sandy method should be the required standard.
Well, thanks for that link (the mimi interview starts at 1:36:00).
I'm not sure if this has been brought up here, but besides the Strava upload, Mimi also says that she was to be carrying a GPS tracker. Is that still in effect? Is that not a real-time check on here whereabouts? Or can that be hacked? Or has she stopped carrying the tracker? Any answers or comments on these issues? (I'm new to this stuff.)
back up, folks wrote:
Well, thanks for that link (the mimi interview starts at 1:36:00).
I'm not sure if this has been brought up here, but besides the Strava upload, Mimi also says that she was to be carrying a GPS tracker. Is that still in effect? Is that not a real-time check on here whereabouts? Or can that be hacked? Or has she stopped carrying the tracker? Any answers or comments on these issues? (I'm new to this stuff.)
Wut? Mimi has a realtime GPS tracker?!? Where is the data at? If her intent and conveyance to her sponsors, pre-race, was to carry a real-time GPS tracker, and now the data is not there, then is that not a HUGE RED FLAG?!?
Where is Mimi's GPS tracker data?