te5n1k wrote:
The Dirty Duck wrote:
I wondered if right wing politics might play a role when I saw that he got his PhD at Concordia. The scars of Trump's reign will be with us all for a long time, I suppose.
TME is clearly a pretty woke brand (and i support that) so honestly if tom was that extreme on the politics that seems like a fine reason to drop him with everyone else going on, but they are still handling it poorly.
In what way are they handling it poorly?
One of the reasons the TME was so popular is because they were bootstrapping it. People could relate to them trying to perform at a high level without big time contracts. Now everyone is criticizing them for not paying the coach a king's ransom? WTF?
Woke brand? Really? Things get weirder by the day. Now Track has a Woke Brand.
Alexi Santana wrote:
rojo wrote:
We've udpated the initial article.
In terms of payment. Let me clarify a few things as Weldon clearly didn't read everything. The TME guys were paying Tom $2k per month - a discount on the standard $200 per month he charges. Drew's adidas contract had a separate coaching stipdend in it that Tammy said was around the range of a beginning teacher's salary,.
She has also said he never made $60k from the team so I would guess he was making in the 50s from the team if we combine the two income sources once the TME guys starting paying him (she said he didn't charge them at first) as a stipend in the 30s seems about right based on what I know about the normal coaching stipend % and the rumors of how large Drew's contract is.
Good callouts here. I saw this on a prior thread and it matches the general range of comp I have heard:
10 years; first 5 with no reductions. Approximately $400k/ year plus 100k to be spent on coaching, travel, etc. I believe it also included tuition should he continue his education, which I believe he did.
Not sure how that 100K would be broken down between coaching, travel, and other things. I can't imagine he'd need much more than 10K-20K/year for travel, right? Maybe a bit more for the longer stays in Europe over the summer?
From reading the complaints on both sides it seems like there were some differences such that it made sense for Tinman and TME to separate, and all would have been fine if everyone just approached it professionally. It's everything that has happened since then that is the issue - how they communicated it to him, airing dirty laundry on Letsrun, etc.
If Drew is getting $400k a year why is he asking for donations on the TME website?
https://tinmanelite.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=5cf82c3f9e96bd0001d85747The Original Poster wrote:
If Drew is getting $400k a year why is he asking for donations on the TME website?
https://tinmanelite.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=5cf82c3f9e96bd0001d85747
you want him to pay the other guys out of his pocket? i'd guess drew doesn't take a cut of merch sales, despite being the biggest attraction, and that's just to help make ends meet for the guys who don't make real money off running
rusty tincanz wrote:
Did tinman go to same college as Julia Webb in Wisconsin
What is tinman’s social media account? Need to check it
I know Tom went to UW-La Crosse and ran under Coach Phil Esten.
I never heard how he got the Tinman nickname, but would think if he is no longer coaching the group the name should be changed.
I think people here are a little narrow-sighted about the association of the "Tinman" name with Schwartz in the real world outside this website.
For 99% of even people who loosely follow track, "Tinman" is the name of Drew Hunter and Sam Parsons' club, which they founded and put in the work to build a brand, not the nickname of their coach.
Schwartz even barely uses "Tinman" in his own branding -
- To the extent he does, I'd guess he added it after Drew and Sam put in lots of work to grow "Tinman" as a brand which he had not done.
There's also a reason the remote coaching done by TME guys uses "Hammer & Axe" - Schwartz certainly owns a trademark as applied to private coaching services.
TME probably owns trademark as used for a team/apparel designer, and I think they earned that with their labor, and there isn't really any evidence Schwartz did anything to help grow the club's brand? You're allowed to name things after people.
Hmm, the tinmen group is not that good, stop pretending they are on their way to a medal stand at any level. Bunch of entitled kids with a big social media presence and a small athletic presence.
Tinman was a poster here on this board 15 or more years ago until he got sick of the attacks by the anonymous posters. He actually posted some good stuff back in the day.
Anyways, I don't have a dog in the fight, think social media is a curse and just promotes self absorbed clowns. If your actually good at what you do you don't need to tell everyone.
Drew has never lived up to his contract, I'm sure Adidas regrets it and the rest of that group are nobodies. I couldn't name one of them and for good reason.
duck sauce wrote:
The Original Poster wrote:
If Drew is getting $400k a year why is he asking for donations on the TME website?
https://tinmanelite.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=5cf82c3f9e96bd0001d85747you want him to pay the other guys out of his pocket? i'd guess drew doesn't take a cut of merch sales, despite being the biggest attraction, and that's just to help make ends meet for the guys who don't make real money off running
Have the other guys ever thought of, you know, taking personal responsibility for their livelihood? Maybe running fast enough to support themselves?
Han Solo wrote:
duck sauce wrote:
you want him to pay the other guys out of his pocket? i'd guess drew doesn't take a cut of merch sales, despite being the biggest attraction, and that's just to help make ends meet for the guys who don't make real money off running
Have the other guys ever thought of, you know, taking personal responsibility for their livelihood? Maybe running fast enough to support themselves?
yeah this is what theyre doing by designing and selling merchandise for their club....
Because having more money is still better than having less money, I suppose!
Han Solo wrote:
duck sauce wrote:
you want him to pay the other guys out of his pocket? i'd guess drew doesn't take a cut of merch sales, despite being the biggest attraction, and that's just to help make ends meet for the guys who don't make real money off running
Have the other guys ever thought of, you know, taking personal responsibility for their livelihood? Maybe running fast enough to support themselves?
"Why don't the poors just buy more money?"
Just because it's easy, doesn't make it right. If he isn't coaching that group and there was any sort of issue with him, why would they want to keep his name? DME instead of TME sounds close and I'm sure Drew's Mom would rather have that, right?
duck sauce wrote:
Han Solo wrote:
Have the other guys ever thought of, you know, taking personal responsibility for their livelihood? Maybe running fast enough to support themselves?
yeah this is what theyre doing by designing and selling merchandise for their club....
And what happens when they can't sell enough to provide 13 guys a livable wage? By my estimation they'd currently be earning well under than minimum wage per person.
te5n1k wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Woke brand? Really? Things get weirder by the day. Now Track has a Woke Brand.
ok boomer
The woke religion is pervasive, like acid reflux or toenail fungus, except it will burn your downtown down.
The Dirty Duck wrote:
5280runner wrote:
Hi Tammy. I was a participant in your husbands PHD study. In the two interactions I had with him it was clear he was extremely proud of his athletes but came off extremely arrogant. Nobody knows what they are talking about except for him in the 2-3 examples he shared about his TME athletes.
The good
I was really excited to connect as I really enjoy his work but I wish I hadn’t after these brief encounters (also didn’t help he sent right wing propaganda texts multiple times a week for a month after meeting). You can be a great coach and a jerk, things in life aren’t binary.
I wish the best for him. With his pedigree he will land on his feet. Perhaps just focusing and developing elite HS athletes is the next chapter.
I wondered if right wing politics might play a role when I saw that he got his PhD at Concordia. The scars of Trump's reign will be with us all for a long time, I suppose.
Couple things here.
Have only met TS a couple times briefly, seems like a nice enough guy, but yeah he'll dominate the convo about running and does not seem to care much to listen. So some of the remarks on recent pages here seem correct.
Have seen posts in this thread saying that TME trademark was only filed in Dec. 2020. (
https://uspto.report/TM/88438572) here it says 5/2019. I know many from this site have real trouble when it comes to math and numbers, but that's almost 2 years ago (23 months for those who still have trouble), not 4 months.
Times have changed, and if a significant reason for the break comes down to politics and social mores of an RW older generation vs. progressive millennials--then indeed this is not 1957.
Former DIII wrote:
Han Solo wrote:
Have the other guys ever thought of, you know, taking personal responsibility for their livelihood? Maybe running fast enough to support themselves?
"Why don't the poors just buy more money?"
Yeah, not what I said. If you knew me, you'd know I would be described on these boards as some kind of bleeding heart liberal. I'm 100% for a UBI and lifting people up out of bad situations, but these are all guys with an education and the tools they need to create amazing lives for themselves if running doesn't work out. They aren't being held down by some kind of system. What I'm saying is that if they want to keep running they have to live with the consequences of that decision.
duck sauce wrote:
The Original Poster wrote:
If Drew is getting $400k a year why is he asking for donations on the TME website?
https://tinmanelite.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=5cf82c3f9e96bd0001d85747you want him to pay the other guys out of his pocket? i'd guess drew doesn't take a cut of merch sales, despite being the biggest attraction, and that's just to help make ends meet for the guys who don't make real money off running
I don't think Drew needs to pay them out of his pocket. There are plenty of runners in Boulder at the level of Drew's current teammates that he could train with for free. I'm fine with the team as a whole taking donations and even the other individuals on the team taking donations. But it is out of touch for a guy who makes $400k a year and owns a $1 million home to be asking for personal donations.
Han Solo wrote:
duck sauce wrote:
yeah this is what theyre doing by designing and selling merchandise for their club....
And what happens when they can't sell enough to provide 13 guys a livable wage? By my estimation they'd currently be earning well under than minimum wage per person.
They also have the overpriced/ripoff Hammer & Axe coaching service they offer (don't know how many takers they've found) and most of them, like Reed Fischer, certainly do have some kind of day job.
Han Solo wrote:
duck sauce wrote:
yeah this is what theyre doing by designing and selling merchandise for their club....
And what happens when they can't sell enough to provide 13 guys a livable wage? By my estimation they'd currently be earning well under than minimum wage per person.
Aren't a few of these guys trust funders? I assumed so based off of their attitudes.