If you had bonds then it is highly unlikely you were beating the market. If you had mostly index funds and bonds then it is almost impossible you were beating the overall market. Bonds would have been a huge drag on your portfolio. AGip is correct that over the long haul many of the tech funds have done great but they have great years interspersed with terrible years.
Here is how the S & P did in some years since 1989 ...
1989 31%
1991 31%
1995 37.5%
1997 33.3%
1998 29%
2003 29%
2009 26%
2013 33.3%
2019 31.4%
2021 29%
You really expect us to believe you beat the market 32 out of 33 years? Good years AND bad years. No way in heck did you. If you beat the market 17 out of 33 years would be considered great. No way in heck did you beat it 32 out of 33 years. What investments you had in the really good years would have been detriments in the off years. Come on Flagpole - show us your spreadsheet! LOL. We did not just arrive on the turnip truck.
Ima give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying and just did something boneheaded like counting his yearly contributions as investment returns.
That doesn't make any sense at all. The Dow is just made up of just 30 companies. My stuff is well-diversified including all kinds of sectors and caps and international stocks. Managed funds with Vanguard and Fidelity. Again, when there have been big dips, I have put in extra money. That has kept me ahead of the Dow in more than a couple cases.
well what can I tell you. I don't believe you. We'll have to agree to disagree.
I don't see any way a portfolio of managed funds with their management fee drags could possibly beat the market 32/33 years. It's possible but such a small possibility that I don't believe it to be a credible claim.
I don't think you are lying - I think your record keeping is faulty. I mean finding one or two managed funds that have beaten the market for 32/33 years would be remarkable. Having an entire portfolio do it is too much for me to believe.
If you want to list a few of the funds you've owned that have beaten the market for 32/33 years that would be interesting.
A professional investor (I mean a highly seasoned professional) has a less than 50% chance of beating the market in any year. That is why index funds beat actively managed funds 70 to 80% of the time. Their expense fees are too high. Let's pretend Flagpole is a savvy investor and he has a 50% chance in beating the market in one year. 1/2. 2 years is 1/4. 3 years is 1/8. 4 years straight is 1/16. 5 years straight is 1/32. 6 years is 1/64. 7 years is 1/128. 8 years is 1/256. We are already at 1/256 and Flagpole still needs to beat the market 24 years out of 25! LOL!!!
I had a period of time early on when I had some bonds. I decided after a while that that was a bad idea for a guy as young as I was then, so I got rid of them and have not re-purchased them.
No gold or precious metals or anything speculative ever.
Cash? Yes, I have had some cash. I do not count that as part of my investments.
Well, I have beaten the Dow every year except one since 1989. I keep it all in a spreadsheet, and numbers don't lie.
You're either lying (badly) or just royally screwing up your spreadsheets, probably a little bit of both. You may have beaten the DJIA in one or two years out of those 33 but that's it.
Ha! Nope! EVERYONE beats The Dow at least twice out of 33 years.
But, no lying from me as I haven't told a single lie in my adult life, and no, my spreadsheets are not wrong. Just data taken from my fund companies.
How badly are all of you doing that you can't even imagine this? Do you you all rebalance and try to follow the hot thing from the previous year? Not me. I just buy more...add more funds. That's it.
Here is how the S & P did in some years since 1989 ...
1989 31%
1991 31%
1995 37.5%
1997 33.3%
1998 29%
2003 29%
2009 26%
2013 33.3%
2019 31.4%
2021 29%
You really expect us to believe you beat the market 32 out of 33 years? Good years AND bad years. No way in heck did you. If you beat the market 17 out of 33 years would be considered great. No way in heck did you beat it 32 out of 33 years. What investments you had in the really good years would have been detriments in the off years. Come on Flagpole - show us your spreadsheet! LOL. We did not just arrive on the turnip truck.
Ima give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying and just did something boneheaded like counting his yearly contributions as investment returns.
Here is how the S & P did in some years since 1989 ...
1989 31%
1991 31%
1995 37.5%
1997 33.3%
1998 29%
2003 29%
2009 26%
2013 33.3%
2019 31.4%
2021 29%
You really expect us to believe you beat the market 32 out of 33 years? Good years AND bad years. No way in heck did you. If you beat the market 17 out of 33 years would be considered great. No way in heck did you beat it 32 out of 33 years. What investments you had in the really good years would have been detriments in the off years. Come on Flagpole - show us your spreadsheet! LOL. We did not just arrive on the turnip truck.
I'm done conversing with you now on this as you are just trying to troll me by mentioning the S&P 500 and then again talking about "the market". So, you COULD have involved yourself in adult conversation, but you're an ass, so you can't. Dumb@ss.
Why not give us some of your funds? Oh because we can verify? I can list 50 of my funds if you want and you can list just 5 of yours if you want.
I'm done conversing with you now on this as you are just trying to troll me by mentioning the S&P 500 and then again talking about "the market". So, you COULD have involved yourself in adult conversation, but you're an ass, so you can't. Dumb@ss.
Why not give us some of your funds? Oh because we can verify? I can list 50 of my funds if you want and you can list just 5 of yours if you want.
I'm done conversing with you now on this as you are just trying to troll me by mentioning the S&P 500 and then again talking about "the market". So, you COULD have involved yourself in adult conversation, but you're an ass, so you can't. Dumb@ss.
Why not give us some of your funds? Oh because we can verify? I can list 50 of my funds if you want and you can list just 5 of yours if you want.
You're either lying (badly) or just royally screwing up your spreadsheets, probably a little bit of both. You may have beaten the DJIA in one or two years out of those 33 but that's it.
Ha! Nope! EVERYONE beats The Dow at least twice out of 33 years.
But, no lying from me as I haven't told a single lie in my adult life, and no, my spreadsheets are not wrong. Just data taken from my fund companies.
How badly are all of you doing that you can't even imagine this? Do you you all rebalance and try to follow the hot thing from the previous year? Not me. I just buy more...add more funds. That's it.
Not doing badly at all, I retired almost 2 years ago at 54 with more money than I'll ever need. Been around long enough to know that what you're claiming to have done isn't even remotely possible.
well what can I tell you. I don't believe you. We'll have to agree to disagree.
I don't see any way a portfolio of managed funds with their management fee drags could possibly beat the market 32/33 years. It's possible but such a small possibility that I don't believe it to be a credible claim.
I don't think you are lying - I think your record keeping is faulty. I mean finding one or two managed funds that have beaten the market for 32/33 years would be remarkable. Having an entire portfolio do it is too much for me to believe.
If you want to list a few of the funds you've owned that have beaten the market for 32/33 years that would be interesting.
I never lie...ever. I have not miscalculated. It's pretty easy to know returns when the Fund companies tell you what each fund earned in the calendar year and then what the total gain/loss on the year is. Fees are exceptionally low at Vanguard and Fidelity. It would actually be MUCH harder to look at one or two funds and have them beat The Dow. You have to have MORE in there to have the chance to do it. One can easily lose to The Dow in any given year. It is MUCH harder for the average of many to lose.
I already mentioned that I have not owned ANY one fund for 33 years. My absolute oldest few were purchased in 1998 when I got a new job and did a roll over.
You do realize that the Dow is a very conservative index, right? Most of my investments don't include companies in The Dow. This really shouldn't be a surprise. It's not that remarkable. I haven't beaten the NASDAQ or the S&P 500 with such regularity.
"It would actually be MUCH harder to look at one or two funds and have them beat The Dow. You have to have MORE in there to have the chance to do it."
that is just not how investing works. the more funds you have, the more you regress to the mean minus management fees. One fund can get very lucky and beat the market for many years but there is no way anyone could fund a portfolio of funds that beats the market every year.
"You do realize that the Dow is a very conservative index, right?"
Ha! Nope! EVERYONE beats The Dow at least twice out of 33 years.
But, no lying from me as I haven't told a single lie in my adult life, and no, my spreadsheets are not wrong. Just data taken from my fund companies.
How badly are all of you doing that you can't even imagine this? Do you you all rebalance and try to follow the hot thing from the previous year? Not me. I just buy more...add more funds. That's it.
Not doing badly at all, I retired almost 2 years ago at 54 with more money than I'll ever need. Been around long enough to know that what you're claiming to have done isn't even remotely possible.
Flagpole just keeps buying more funds and more funds but he won't dare tell us which funds he is buying. If he was a true friend he would at least offer us a few bread crumbs and tell us one or two of the funds that have made him fabulously wealthy. After all, if you have beaten the market (which had done fantastically over the last 33 years) 32 out of 33 years you have to be fabulously wealthy.
Not doing badly at all, I retired almost 2 years ago at 54 with more money than I'll ever need. Been around long enough to know that what you're claiming to have done isn't even remotely possible.
Flagpole just keeps buying more funds and more funds but he won't dare tell us which funds he is buying. If he was a true friend he would at least offer us a few bread crumbs and tell us one or two of the funds that have made him fabulously wealthy. After all, if you have beaten the market (which had done fantastically over the last 33 years) 32 out of 33 years you have to be fabulously wealthy.
Flagpole just keeps buying more funds and more funds but he won't dare tell us which funds he is buying. If he was a true friend he would at least offer us a few bread crumbs and tell us one or two of the funds that have made him fabulously wealthy. After all, if you have beaten the market (which had done fantastically over the last 33 years) 32 out of 33 years you have to be fabulously wealthy.
Not doing badly at all, I retired almost 2 years ago at 54 with more money than I'll ever need. Been around long enough to know that what you're claiming to have done isn't even remotely possible.
Flagpole just keeps buying more funds and more funds but he won't dare tell us which funds he is buying. If he was a true friend he would at least offer us a few bread crumbs and tell us one or two of the funds that have made him fabulously wealthy. After all, if you have beaten the market (which had done fantastically over the last 33 years) 32 out of 33 years you have to be fabulously wealthy.
Here's my 4 funds and current AA:
S&P 500 index 45%
MidCap 400 Index 15%
Russell 2000 index 15%
US Total Bond Market index 25%
Never tried to time or beat the market, just stayed in it.
I never lie...ever. I have not miscalculated. It's pretty easy to know returns when the Fund companies tell you what each fund earned in the calendar year and then what the total gain/loss on the year is. Fees are exceptionally low at Vanguard and Fidelity. It would actually be MUCH harder to look at one or two funds and have them beat The Dow. You have to have MORE in there to have the chance to do it. One can easily lose to The Dow in any given year. It is MUCH harder for the average of many to lose.
I already mentioned that I have not owned ANY one fund for 33 years. My absolute oldest few were purchased in 1998 when I got a new job and did a roll over.
You do realize that the Dow is a very conservative index, right? Most of my investments don't include companies in The Dow. This really shouldn't be a surprise. It's not that remarkable. I haven't beaten the NASDAQ or the S&P 500 with such regularity.
"It would actually be MUCH harder to look at one or two funds and have them beat The Dow. You have to have MORE in there to have the chance to do it."
that is just not how investing works. the more funds you have, the more you regress to the mean minus management fees. One fund can get very lucky and beat the market for many years but there is no way anyone could fund a portfolio of funds that beats the market every year.
"You do realize that the Dow is a very conservative index, right?"
Dow returns are not conservative:
5 years: 13.25%/year
10 years: 12.6% per year
Maybe you aren't counting dividends?
Not true. The Dow is conservative. It is the easiest of the indices to beat. If most of your stuff is more aggressively invested and yet diversified so you don't take a huge hit, you have a good chance of beating the most conservative index.
"It would actually be MUCH harder to look at one or two funds and have them beat The Dow. You have to have MORE in there to have the chance to do it."
that is just not how investing works. the more funds you have, the more you regress to the mean minus management fees. One fund can get very lucky and beat the market for many years but there is no way anyone could fund a portfolio of funds that beats the market every year.
"You do realize that the Dow is a very conservative index, right?"
Dow returns are not conservative:
5 years: 13.25%/year
10 years: 12.6% per year
Maybe you aren't counting dividends?
Not true. The Dow is conservative. It is the easiest of the indices to beat. If most of your stuff is more aggressively invested and yet diversified so you don't take a huge hit, you have a good chance of beating the most conservative index.
The NASDAQ 10 year average is 14.39%
The S&P 500 10 year average is 13.95%
The 10-year average return for the Dow Jones is 14.34%. You say it is the easiest to beat but all the indices usually are pretty similar. Look how closely it compares to the NASDAQ and the S &
Not true. The Dow is conservative. It is the easiest of the indices to beat. If most of your stuff is more aggressively invested and yet diversified so you don't take a huge hit, you have a good chance of beating the most conservative index.
The NASDAQ 10 year average is 14.39%
The S&P 500 10 year average is 13.95%
The 10-year average return for the Dow Jones is 14.34%. You say it is the easiest to beat but all the indices usually are pretty similar. Look how closely it compares to the NASDAQ and the S &
Why it is so hard to beat the market(s) in one year. Let alone 32 out of 33. It is tough not to laugh at loud when typing 32 out of 33.
Igy, my life is not my own. Were it up to me, I would buy some land, build a track, indoor and outdoor with gym, pool, and fields, and offer it to motivated people, for only the cost of insurance. I would also implement a random PED testing program 😁.
Either that or an island off Thunder Bay, with an axe and a pack of dogs. I was offered a position in the early 90’s as a range rider, sometimes I wish I had taken it.
I don’t like Monaco, save for the gardens behind the palace. The stadium is cool, it has a nice gym. Sometimes good exhibits come to town—but I actually prefer the environs like Beausoleil, Turbie, and esp Roquebrune. It is nothing special, but it is a kind of home for me—and it has one of the best tracks ever—a micro-track right on the water! Lol I LOVE it.
My situation is wherever my wife is, whatever she wants that I can help make happen. That’s what it’s about for me. She may be the next diving coach in Geneva or preferably Lausanne, we will see. Plus it’s her family’s home turf. Maybe I will find a track coaching position!
Maserati,
My wife probably felt her life was not her own. At the height of my coaching career I was gone half the yearly weekends. She never complained; frankly don’t know how I did it in retrospect. Coaching was an extension of my personal running, so just grew into it. Not at all like the revenue sports, travel by fifteen passenger vans and bus. I suppose one reason travel is not at the top of my retirement bucket list.
The 10-year average return for the Dow Jones is 14.34%. You say it is the easiest to beat but all the indices usually are pretty similar. Look how closely it compares to the NASDAQ and the S &
Why it is so hard to beat the market(s) in one year. Let alone 32 out of 33. It is tough not to laugh at loud when typing 32 out of 33.
"It would actually be MUCH harder to look at one or two funds and have them beat The Dow. You have to have MORE in there to have the chance to do it."
that is just not how investing works. the more funds you have, the more you regress to the mean minus management fees. One fund can get very lucky and beat the market for many years but there is no way anyone could fund a portfolio of funds that beats the market every year.
"You do realize that the Dow is a very conservative index, right?"
Dow returns are not conservative:
5 years: 13.25%/year
10 years: 12.6% per year
Maybe you aren't counting dividends?
Not true. The Dow is conservative. It is the easiest of the indices to beat. If most of your stuff is more aggressively invested and yet diversified so you don't take a huge hit, you have a good chance of beating the most conservative index.
The NASDAQ 10 year average is 14.39%
The S&P 500 10 year average is 13.95%
This is like shooting fish in a pond, but you mention "if your stuff is more aggressively invested..." You don't seem to know that having more aggressive investments will give you wider swings. Some years you maybe beat the Dow significantly, but other years your more aggressive investments will do terribly. Like Agip mentioned with tech stocks -- overall they have done great but year-to-year they have some terrible years. Look at MSFT for instance.
Here is how the S & P did in some years since 1989 ...
1989 31%
1991 31%
1995 37.5%
1997 33.3%
1998 29%
2003 29%
2009 26%
2013 33.3%
2019 31.4%
2021 29%
You really expect us to believe you beat the market 32 out of 33 years? Good years AND bad years. No way in heck did you. If you beat the market 17 out of 33 years would be considered great. No way in heck did you beat it 32 out of 33 years. What investments you had in the really good years would have been detriments in the off years. Come on Flagpole - show us your spreadsheet! LOL. We did not just arrive on the turnip truck.
Ima give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not lying and just did something boneheaded like counting his yearly contributions as investment returns.
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