Drunken Gobbler wrote:
Here is a long article documenting these events of how this went down (Sorry if already posted) good read:
http://www.theshadowleague.com/articles/rocky-flop-the-story-of-how-the-tennessee-track-program-discarded-its-top-recruits
Is this a joke? This is literally the same article that the quote of the day on the first page leads to...
You can tell a lot about a person's character by how they treat the people that they don't have to treat well.
Does she have the right to do what she did to UT recruits? Probably. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. You see this kind of behavior from despicable human beings in a positions of power; and Beth Sullivan has absolute power over the student athletes.
I am sure that there will always be recruits willing to run at the University of Tennessee so not much will change.
Yes it is increasingly more difficult to find decent people to coach. Largest high school in my state has the worst track program largely due to the ego bullying of the coaches. Really sad to see so many potential athletes drop CC and T&F because of such poor coaching.
Oh, did I touch a nerve on a poor little overly sensitive person? I'm sorry. I will try to be nice.
Don't mess with the Karma wrote:
I am sure that there will always be recruits willing to run at the University of Tennessee so not much will change.
Probably yes and no to that. A lot of people in the know have or are going to see this so it will have an effect for some time. But there will always be people who are out of the loop or are naive/trusting. If she starts winning soon all will be forgotten in another year or two. Definitely someone should track recruiting classes this year. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Just to shed some light on some things in the article and UT:
1) JJ Clark was not fired. His contract was up and the administration chose not to renew it.
2) Sharon Seagraves was not fired. Assistants at UT have one year contracts. Her contract was not renewed. BAS chose to go with another coach.
3) Although the athletes were let go from the team and did not have access to ATHLETICS facilities, they did have access to the university facilities which are top of the line. She also had access to the track; just not during team practice.
4) I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure JJ Clark ever broke 4 minutes in the mile. I only say this to highlight how the article tended to exaggerate some things for what seemed to be for emotional response.
The next points are more opinion:
5) Because BAS recruited and offered a scholarship so one of the young ladies while at Penn State doesn't mean She would have recruited her at UT. The position needs at UT were different than those at Penn State. Just like in basketball where you don't need 6 centers, they probably decided they had too many sprinters.
6) One of the claims that was repeated by the article, the young lady, and her parents was that she was the best 400m hurdler on the team. That very well may have been the case. But that's only one event. Who knows if she could have scored at the SEC and NCAA meets? That's an awful lot of scholarship money on a one event girl when the sprints are already overloaded and there's barely enough women to fill a cross country roster.
7) I agree that this is sad for these women. If they're as resilient (and talented) as the article makes them out to be, then they'll be back competing and running good times soon.
8) BAS made a tough decision in a difficult situation. Both the men's and women's team had been declining under JJ Clark. He is a great women's middle distance coach, but he's not the greatest Head Track Coach. The alternative to the situation is BAS had let them stay on the team and compete for a year, informed them they were being cut following outdoor track, and consequently wasted a year of eligibility. While this does not make her a saint or gracious, it probably would have been more disappointing the other way.
Toto the tittat wrote:
Oh, did I touch a nerve on a poor little overly sensitive person? I'm sorry. I will try to be nice.
Let's review your previous post, bit by bit -
Toto the tittat wrote:
I have a strong sense that the majority of these posts are the same small group of people.
Non-sequitur.
An argument stands on its merit. The number of people making a particular argument is irrelevant to that argument's validity and soundness.
And it's quite likely the other way around, actually (which "side's" posts are being made by the same people).
Toto the tittat wrote:
Thin skinned coddled generation. It really is sad.
Non-sequitur.
Being thin skinned & coddled or not thin skinned & coddled has no bearing on the moral status of Sullivan's actions.
Therefore, this objection is irrelevant.
Toto the tittat wrote:
When something really tough happens in your life then you will have no skills to handle adversity.
Non-sequitur.
Being able to handle adversity or not being able to handle adversity has no bearing on the moral status of Sullivan's actions.
Therefore, this objection is irrelevant.
Toto the tittat wrote:
I would not have handled things the same way as BAS but it hardly warrants this long of a thread. Good luck with life. It will be rough!
Non-sequitur.
How you would have handled the situation has no bearing on the moral status of Sullivan's actions.
You people keep resorting to the same old bag of tricks.
It didn't work several months ago. It doesn't work now. Try something else. Changing your view is what I'd suggest.
Why is Beth going to suffer personal greif? If you are telling strangers off at age 18 because you read stuff on a message board, you ain't going to have anything to lose for a long time. I can assure you Beth appeared the better person and you a little brat when you said that, and i dont know u or Beth. Most people viewed it like your Mom did.....because most people don't read letsrun. Congrats on humiliating yourself, your mom, and your coach in public. I'm sure u are on here to justify your actions so u don't feel personal greif and you probably will get support from the letsrun fan boys, but it's a pretty male biased group. Any time they can bash a woman coach they will. If you want to "take a stand" you should have made the issues clear so your audience wouldn't take you for the bad bully person. State the issues not smuck about a fictitious college. U came off as haughty, in my opinion. Wasted opportunity.
And why do we run? To have a good......time.
She's a scumbag.
Link wrote:
In any case, damages are easy to show: The loss of 3 years tuition, fees room and board.
Nah, NCAA scholarships are only year-by-year. (Conferences/institutions/teams can decide to "guarantee" them for a longer period, but I don't think that's the situation here.) So these students did get to keep their scholarships for the full (only) school year that they covered--unless the students chose to leave before the year was ended--and there was no "loss of three years['] tuition, fees[, and] room and board."
Ken Kesey's Reindeer Milk wrote:
The alternative to the situation is BAS had let them stay on the team and compete for a year, informed them they were being cut following outdoor track, and consequently wasted a year of eligibility.
I'm not an NCAA rules geek, but, it seems to me some kids agreed to one program, got another, AND THEN kicked off the program before anything got started is not really a great way to handle it.
How about honoring their year commitment? Warn them the program is going in another direction when they get there and let them do their season. They have some time ~10 months to work something out and their season isn't over before it's started.
The school should work with the NCAA to smooth a transition out to another program if there are rules issues.
Oh, no! That requires fair dealing from honorable people.
Very very sleazy dealings from Tennessee.
Who's got the Athletic Directors E-mail? Let's send this guy a few friendly letsrun emails.
What a B*tch!!!!
From UT's Athletic Website.
Our Mission
To inspire and support our student-athletes in the pursuit of comprehensive excellence.
Our Vision
To represent the University of Tennessee among the nation's premier athletics programs by developing student-athletes who graduate, compete for championships and conduct themselves in a first-class manner, honoring and fulfilling the Volunteer spirit.
Core Values
Integrity without compromise
National leadership
Service to our students, fans, and community
Personal accountability
Inclusion and respect for the individual
Relentless competitiveness
Excellence in education
Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem that the Beth Sullivan is living up to the Mission, Vision, or Core values set out by UT's athletic department.
Core Values
Integrity without compromise - LOL Compromised
National leadership - Hire a black woman next time!
Service to our students, fans, and community - Running community hates you
Personal accountability - Fire Beth Sullivan immediately or let the athletes back
Inclusion and respect for the individual - Seems like you excluded them here
Relentless competitiveness - Meh.....
Excellence in education - Not so much
Whos got the number??? wrote:
Who's got the Athletic Directors E-mail? Let's send this guy a few friendly letsrun emails.
What a B*tch!!!!
I can help you here, since we have already been in contact with them (we are interested in recruiting and helping one of the athletes treated miserably, but we cannot initiate contact under NCAA rules until a release has been granted).
The Director of Athletics and Vice Chancellor is:
Dave Hart
athleticdirector@utk.edu(865) 974-1224
Please DO give them a piece of your mind and please DO share it around.
Not see N IT wrote:
From UT's Athletic Website.
Our Mission
To inspire and support our student-athletes in the pursuit of comprehensive excellence.
Our Vision
To represent the University of Tennessee among the nation's premier athletics programs by developing student-athletes who graduate, compete for championships and conduct themselves in a first-class manner, honoring and fulfilling the Volunteer spirit.
Core Values
Integrity without compromise
National leadership
Service to our students, fans, and community
Personal accountability
Inclusion and respect for the individual
Relentless competitiveness
Excellence in education
Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem that the Beth Sullivan is living up to the Mission, Vision, or Core values set out by UT's athletic department.
BAS said she was going "another direction" didn't she?
And this would appear to be the new direction to which she's headed:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071204031522/starwars/images/e/e7/Crimson-guard.jpg
ohmgee wrote:
Why is Beth going to suffer personal greif? If you are telling strangers off at age 18 because you read stuff on a message board, you ain't going to have anything to lose for a long time. I can assure you Beth appeared the better person and you a little brat when you said that, and i dont know u or Beth. Most people viewed it like your Mom did.....because most people don't read letsrun. Congrats on humiliating yourself, your mom, and your coach in public. I'm sure u are on here to justify your actions so u don't feel personal greif and you probably will get support from the letsrun fan boys, but it's a pretty male biased group. Any time they can bash a woman coach they will. If you want to "take a stand" you should have made the issues clear so your audience wouldn't take you for the bad bully person. State the issues not smuck about a fictitious college. U came off as haughty, in my opinion. Wasted opportunity.
Actually, I am proud of what I said because even as a high school runner I have faced paternalism and sexism, even from women coaches who are supposed to be looking out for young people. So no, I am not a brat, and I know what I am talking about. And I will be running for Brown next year. I am respectful to people who deserve respect, and I have no trouble speaking my mind to predators.
