D3 Atlantic Region 2012 XC

Lee Berube: 9:07 --> 14:21/29:44/23:49 8k. Not sure where you are getting that 9:07 = 14:37 for a high schooler. Hundreds of HS kids run under 9:10 every year, how many of them can/do run under 14:40? McMillan says 9:07 is equal to 14:59, 31:08 and 24:42 for 8k on a track.

Eddie Novara --> transferred in as a 15:06 guy and AA in XC. Dropped to 14:25 and 29:32 in 2 years, plus two more AA's in XC.

Chris Carter --> 1:58 down to 1:53.0 is actually a pretty big improvement for the 800.

Tom Clark --> 4:23 down to 3:53 is pretty solid improvement, as is 14:47. Just ran 24:16 for 8k as well.

Mark Streb --> 4:01 down to 3:52 is average improvement, but he also was one spot out of AA in XC 2012 with a 24:50 and was a 2 time conference champion. Not drastic improvement, but a very solid career for someone who had as many injury problems as he did.

AJ Corcoran --> 4:23 in HS, 15:18 at Geneseo. An example of someone who didn't improve that much.

Some people they "weren't talking about:"

Tim Chambers --> 4:30ish in high school, down to 4:02 and 25:20's for 8k

Alex Belensz --> 4:33 in high school, down to 3:58

Patrick Wortner --> 9:49 in high school, down to 15:07

I'm not going to go through any more but, you can see the person who responded is using silly logic.

Yeah let's bring up an absurd now highly inaccurate post from last year just to start some controversy. Sounds good man. See ya'll at Fredonia, I'll have my meter stick with me.

If there argument is he either makes everyone better or he doesn't then we are all wasting our time, but if the point is that Geneseo is consistently positioned to do well within the confines of Division III then yes it is. Was it always that way, no it wasn't. The program has steadily improved over a decade without more than a year of serious down turn

The majority of their runners improve. Some dramatically, some marginally, and like every program there are a number that don't stay healthy, put the time or can maintain their motivations to improve in college.

I think its clear if you poll the alumni since 2002, you'd hear overwhelming pride and belief in the program and the coach who has over seen it. There's a culture there that has persisted and passed down and it is rooted in believing you should be the best.

Its a distance program that has pushed forward and continues to see school records fall year after year after year. Recruiting, retaining and improving all factor into the why.

Stop bashing a program and a coach that want the same thing every team wants: Championships and Personal Bests

They go out against the clock and they do well compared to those around them. Thats what matters and its not debatable.

How many programs out there have balanced success across both programs? Says a lot

the geneseo guys really need to find something else to do besides trolling the atlantic region forum. do you really need to respond to some idiot online who says woodsie can't train a team. obviously he can. but that doesn't mean you guys are gods. this is the d3 atlantic region. i love running in d3...but you guys take it to a new level of fagotry.

hasher wrote:

the geneseo guys really need to find something else to do besides trolling the atlantic region forum. do you really need to respond to some idiot online who says woodsie can't train a team. obviously he can. but that doesn't mean you guys are gods. this is the d3 atlantic region. i love running in d3...but you guys take it to a new level of fagotry.

Responding to someone inaccurately saying Geneseo doesn't improve their athletes = Geneseo athletes thinking they are gods? = "fagotry?????" Nice name-calling, by the way.

Mercier, Santa Clarita, and Daniels all equate it to 14:37.

6-7.4% improvement is average going into senior year, good programs are at 7.5%, bad programs are under 6%

15:06 to 14:25 4.5% improvement (above average taking into consideration he was only there 2 years)

1:57 to 1:53 3.4% improvement (below average)

4:23 to 3:53 4.1% improvement (below average)

4:01 to 3:52 3.7% improvement (below average)

4:23=15:05 to 15:18 -1.4% improvement (got slower)

4:30=4:10 1500 to 4:02.77 2.9% improvement (below average)

4:33=4:12 to 3:58 5.5% improvement (below average)

9:49=15:45 to 15:09.27 3.9% improvement (below average even taking into consideration he's a junior)

For any questions on the conversions they were all converted using Jack Daniels tables.

Of the athletes you listed every one had a below average AI save the 15:06 to 14:25.

Total average AI for athletes listed... 3.3% way under the average 6%. Geneseo doesn't develop athletes very well. Cut, dry, end of story the numbers dont lie.

P.S. I already mentioned Woodsy is a great guy and recruiter. His kids love the program and his alumni are fiercely defensive of the program which goes to show how great he is at getting kids to love Geneseo.

So now that you guys are done trolling, here's my top five predictions for Regionals:

1)NYU:They have proved again and again that they are the best.

2)Oneonta: Apparently at CT the entire team was still lacing up their spikes when the gun went off.

3)Cortland: Ryan Perry seems due for at least a sub 25 8k.

4)Rowan: Robert Rawls and Steve Mennitt nailed a 5 by mile workout the other day in 4:40's, 30 seconds rest.

5)RPI: Very deep team, and have shown consistency.

*Fredonia looks like a dark horse as well.

haha good one, keeping the trolling going i see

Law of Diminishing Return

swifty wrote:

So now that you guys are done trolling, here's my top five predictions for Regionals:

1)NYU:They have proved again and again that they are the best.

2)Oneonta: Apparently at CT the entire team was still lacing up their spikes when the gun went off.

3)Cortland: Ryan Perry seems due for at least a sub 25 8k.

4)Rowan: Robert Rawls and Steve Mennitt nailed a 5 by mile workout the other day in 4:40's, 30 seconds rest.

5)RPI: Very deep team, and have shown consistency.

*Fredonia looks like a dark horse as well.

I heard the 5 by mile was all uphill and the thirty seconds "rest" was actually spent playing vigorous skee ball for upper body work.

lol these are awsome....youre really going to critque lee berube or eddie nivara?.....streb who was 36th in the nation last year in xc? I would definetly say he was pretty succesfull. Chris Carter who if i remember was a 2-miler in high school and a 5k guy his freshman year at Geneseo lol, and tom clark who is running extremly well this year. get your facts straight

Sunyac course was short at fredonia by 2 minutes there is no way geneseo ran that fast. (oh i wanted to be the first person to post about the sunyac race)

This is great. In order for Woodsie to be any good he'd have to get Novara running under 14, Carter under 1:50, and everyone else running equally ridiculous times. Show me one team that fits your "formula" of baseless numbers that started with guys at that level (of course you can improve scrubs by that much, but that doesn't make you a good coach) and then get back to me. Tim Nelson is literally the only person in my mind that fits your improvement curve, and he's a multiple time national champion. So if the G doesn't produce those (like the rest of the region right?) they're crap. God I hope you're trolling. If not you really need to drop out of school, get to a gas station and pray they're looking for dimwitted attendants that can work a pump handle. Also, quick aside, Novara went from 15:06 to 29:32. Don't know where that fits in for you but in my book that's way beyond 7.5%, no matter how arbitrary that number is.

BUUUUUUURRRRRRNNNNNNNEEEEEDDDDD....need some ice with that?

I LOVE this. Imagine if there was a database of the countries best coaches based on how much faster they get their runners to run. It would make things way easier on HSers to choose which coach they want to run for. I've never looked at performances that way before but why aren't caoches held accountable for how well their athletes run under their program?

With Novara he was a transfer so he would need to have a 3.5% improvement because he was only in the system two years Einstein. Besides the genius who made the OP already said he was above average.

I know if we had guys on my team that were as talented as the kids Geneseo gets we'd have a lot of kids running some crazy fast times.

I agree 7.5% is a crazy improvement for anyone. Maybe that should be more like 5.5-6%. Maybe the reason only one guy hit that criteria from your program is because your coach is the same coach that you've had for that long and he sucks at making people faster?

3.3% from your all-stars lol I love it.

I think that would be a cool statistic to develop... It'd definitely show how overrated some programs are (not saying that about Geneseo) and also how underrated some are as well. But when you have a good name as Geneseo does then fast kids flock to you... It doesn't necessarily mean you have the best coaching even when you finish atop your conference every year.

Since you mentioned SUNYACs,lets make some team predictions.

#1) Geneseo- Brimstein looks like he could win the national title. And Tom Clark seems to be in sub 25 shape.

#2) Cortland- T Hop has been running pretty well and Marcantonio looks good, but needs to find a sense of urgency SOOOOOON! and Cody can't have a showing like he did at Paul Short.

#3)Fredonia-could surprise people. I've heard a few things about their new training.

#4)Oneonta-Longo is starting to hit his stride when it counts. Jim Bernstein is having a great freshman year, and if he has any relation to Sean Bernstein, count on a riveting finish.

#5)Plattsburg- This could be higher depending on how healthy Ryan Millar is. Also they need a solid 5th to step up.

this is hilarious.