Speaking of grasping for straws, why is everyone deflecting with irrelevant things like what she ordered, what she realized as she ate it, or what a beef, pork, or offal tastes like?
What is relevant is what she really ate.
No, it isn't relevant. She didn't have the nandrolone in her system as a result of anything she ate. She doped.
Interesting hypothesis. Just point me to the supporting evidence.
Any black athletes who you so full throatily support?
We learned in a WADA report that 50 Kenyans were sanctioned for nandrolone over a period of 14 years, and that Kenyan farmers do not routinely castrate their pigs.
Please also explain her cranial expansion worse than Barry Bonds???
She's a freakin' doper. Drop the nonsense.
You want me to explain something you made up?
I thought HGH caused head growth, not a one time small quantity of ingested nandrolone.
I made up the fact that her face and specifically her jaw is noticeably different? Serious question...Are you blind?
It's evidence of repeated doping.
You keep asking people to prove a negative.
Here's a scenario for you. Two people locked in a box. One knows they did not fart. There is clearly a fart smell in the box. Both parties agree someone farted.
While you can't prove the other person farted, you do infact know they did.
Longwinded anecdote, to say, there is no other plausible reason for the specific way shelbo800 peed dirty
I thought HGH caused head growth, not a one time small quantity of ingested nandrolone.
I made up the fact that her face and specifically her jaw is noticeably different? Serious question...Are you blind?
It's evidence of repeated doping.
You keep asking people to prove a negative.
Here's a scenario for you. Two people locked in a box. One knows they did not fart. There is clearly a fart smell in the box. Both parties agree someone farted.
While you can't prove the other person farted, you do infact know they did.
Longwinded anecdote, to say, there is no other plausible reason for the specific way shelbo800 peed dirty
right now, Caster Semenya demonstrates for felinity than shelbo
I made up the fact that her face and specifically her jaw is noticeably different? Serious question...Are you blind?
It's evidence of repeated doping.
You keep asking people to prove a negative.
Here's a scenario for you. Two people locked in a box. One knows they did not fart. There is clearly a fart smell in the box. Both parties agree someone farted.
While you can't prove the other person farted, you do infact know they did.
Longwinded anecdote, to say, there is no other plausible reason for the specific way shelbo800 peed dirty
right now, Caster Semenya demonstrates for felinity than shelbo
We learned in a WADA report that 50 Kenyans were sanctioned for nandrolone over a period of 14 years, and that Kenyan farmers do not routinely castrate their pigs.
Were any of these sanctions legitimate?
so the answer is no ,got it.
I thought that was 50 yes's, but somehow what you got is no?
Sometimes "black athletes" like Coleman or Kipsang or Managoi get busted for whereabouts, and I am the rare voice that reminds everyone that whereabouts failures are administrative failures and not true doping busts.
Sometime athletes like Kiprop get busted, and I am the lone voice pointing out that being busted in 2017 and suspicious in 2016 tells us nothing about 2015 or 2008.
Since 2003, anonymous letsrun posters have repeatedly reminded us about Lagat's "A-sample", and I am again the rare voice showing that that was debunked a few months later after the "B-sample" failed to confirm the "A-sample", and re-inspection of the "A-sample" showed a poor match with the reference sample.
Sometimes black athletes like Hassan or Giday or Dibaba or "Slo Mo", or Komen or Geb or Bekele or Kipchoge or hundreds if not thousands of East Africans generally since the 1990's get accused of doping -- here at letsrun by many anonymous nobodies -- on the weak basis of simply succeeding, and I am again the rare voice that says the real substantial evidence for such claims is largely wanting.
Not sure where you wanted to go with your insinuation about "black athletes", but my prejudice is against fantastic sweeping generalizations as well as fanstastic specific accusations generally lacking substance or evidence or logic, but rather propped up like a house of cards on a weak foundation of faith.
Are you family or a business associate with Houlihan rekrunner? Or just Paid by Letsrun to turn the spotlight away from this clear cut case where doper Shelby Houlihan was sentenced for doping in a clear cut case according to sports scientist Ross Tucker and CAS?
I thought HGH caused head growth, not a one time small quantity of ingested nandrolone.
I made up the fact that her face and specifically her jaw is noticeably different? Serious question...Are you blind?
It's evidence of repeated doping.
You keep asking people to prove a negative.
Here's a scenario for you. Two people locked in a box. One knows they did not fart. There is clearly a fart smell in the box. Both parties agree someone farted.
While you can't prove the other person farted, you do infact know they did.
Longwinded anecdote, to say, there is no other plausible reason for the specific way shelbo800 peed dirty
My explanation is that this is completely your imagination.
The CAS didn't rule on plausibility, but just weighed the incomplete evidence before them according to guidelines that require Houlihan to prove the virtually impossible, and the AIU complete liberty to say what they want without any burden of establishing how it applies to the specific instance of Houlihan.
Nandrolone from pork is plausible enough that WADA wrote up a guideline memorializing that pork ingestion can cause both levels higher than their low thresholds, as well as invalidating isotope measurements.
Are you family or a business associate with Houlihan rekrunner? Or just Paid by Letsrun to turn the spotlight away from this clear cut case where doper Shelby Houlihan was sentenced for doping in a clear cut case according to sports scientist Ross Tucker and CAS?
I am none of the above.
The clear cut case doesn't extend far enough to establish that Shelby actually doped. Neither the CAS nor Ross concluded that.
It's also not that clear cut, as the CAS Panel was not unanimous that the presence of nandrolone was correctly reported as an AAF. A slightly different panel might have ruled that an ATF was the right call.
I am in full agreement with both Ross and the CAS that Houlihan failed to establish, to the standard required, that the source of the nandrolone was indeed pork.
Speaking of grasping for straws, why is everyone deflecting with irrelevant things like what she ordered, what she realized as she ate it, or what a beef, pork, or offal tastes like?
What is relevant is what she really ate.
All we know for sure about what she really ate (probably beef) is that it has been ruled out as a source of the nandrolone that she ingested.
I thought that was 50 yes's, but somehow what you got is no?
Sometimes "black athletes" like Coleman or Kipsang or Managoi get busted for whereabouts, and I am the rare voice that reminds everyone that whereabouts failures are administrative failures and not true doping busts.
Sometime athletes like Kiprop get busted, and I am the lone voice pointing out that being busted in 2017 and suspicious in 2016 tells us nothing about 2015 or 2008.
Since 2003, anonymous letsrun posters have repeatedly reminded us about Lagat's "A-sample", and I am again the rare voice showing that that was debunked a few months later after the "B-sample" failed to confirm the "A-sample", and re-inspection of the "A-sample" showed a poor match with the reference sample.
Sometimes black athletes like Hassan or Giday or Dibaba or "Slo Mo", or Komen or Geb or Bekele or Kipchoge or hundreds if not thousands of East Africans generally since the 1990's get accused of doping -- here at letsrun by many anonymous nobodies -- on the weak basis of simply succeeding, and I am again the rare voice that says the real substantial evidence for such claims is largely wanting.
Not sure where you wanted to go with your insinuation about "black athletes", but my prejudice is against fantastic sweeping generalizations as well as fanstastic specific accusations generally lacking substance or evidence or logic, but rather propped up like a house of cards on a weak foundation of faith.
Lagat would likely have been using the designer EPO sold in N America at the time, it deteriorates quickly after excretion, in an asymmetrical fashion. The supplier even bragged about this. Marion Jones also was using this. Dibaba was dirty. Geb and Komen weren't tested OOC by modern standards so we will.never know, but given the era and their times one can be suspicious. Mo has a convicted coach and hung around with Dibaba's coach, suspicious values, trains abroad in remote places and has a faulty doorbell.
Rojo, you have to acknowledge there is some inconsistency to your hunches/thoughts. With Mo Katir, you strongly hinted that you rooted against him because you think he's a doper.
What is more plausible: Barely supported athlete (who ran 3:40 at age 20), aged 22, shows some real promise during the Pandemic and runs 3:36.5 and 7:44. With those results, he's able to train at altitude where the Ingebridsten camp does, get a coach, put on the Asics supershoes and he has a huge age 23 season with some monster marks, but ultimately falls well short of an Olympic medal.
Athlete in her 4th pro season, age 25, after a high-profile college/HS career with strong resources throughout suddleny morphs from a US-level 1500 runner and a good enough to make the team at her better event (the 5K) morphs to a DL-winning one (3:57 with monster kick) at the 1500, and drops huge times including 14:23 without the superspikes. Chalks it up to slightly higher mileage (but she was running 60+ as a senior in college) and better nutrition (in retrospect funny).
Yes, I know you'll want to compare this to Fisher/Cranny, both of whom were HS phenoms at the 1500/mile (unlike Houlihan), and were purposely undertrained at Stanford. They also now are 5,000/10,000 runners, and while Fisher could * maybe * run 3:33-3:34 and Cranny has run 4:02, I don't see the Shelby-type massive drop at 1,500 which was honestly the most unusual part about her progression.
I could toss Josette Norris into this as well.The reality is few runners make huge jumps in the 1500 meters in their mid-20s and later. It is a large red flag unless there is a huge injury history. It's not a late-blooming event.
Absolutely. There is no way some of these “huge jumps” are clean. Just a matter of time for others including those mentioned to be caught.
Katir got off the sauce come Olympic time.
We've got to remember that Ecdysterone or whatever has been legal till recently and is more powerful than gen one steroids. Then there is androgel etc. No way this sport is close to clean.
Lagat would likely have been using the designer EPO sold in N America at the time, it deteriorates quickly after excretion, in an asymmetrical fashion. The supplier even bragged about this. Marion Jones also was using this. Dibaba was dirty. Geb and Komen weren't tested OOC by modern standards so we will.never know, but given the era and their times one can be suspicious. Mo has a convicted coach and hung around with Dibaba's coach, suspicious values, trains abroad in remote places and has a faulty doorbell.
Or not.
I was recently told I had to use Occam's razor more often. Occam disfavors scenarios that require so many assumptions without evidence of observation.
Surely there would be a long list of North Americans then, benefitting from the designer EPO with asymmetric deterioration;
... and long list of sea-level athletes worldwide benefiting from the lack of OOC testing before any tests were even developed for EPO, and before the IAAF introduced the first OOC tests for EPO, when the EPO test was developed but useless;
... and a long list of banned NOP athletes as a result of the 9-year investigation/process with 30 current and former athlete/coach witnesses reviewed by USADA, the AAA Panel, the CAS Panel, and a WADA investigation;
... and a long list of Aden athletes busted for using the EPO that they did not find in Aden's room. There is a 10-year statute of limitations.
What is the value of "suspicion" if it goes nowhere?
Yours is the hypothesis. CAS didn't buy it. They found she doped - hard as it is for deniers like you to accept.
That's not what Ross just told us:
"As for what happened, that is indeed the question. I genuinely don’t know."
As you cannot provide any supporting evidence, I think I'll side with Ross on this point.
The supporting evidence isn't anything Ross says but is the CAS decision, which is the finding that Houlihan doped. But keep believing the moon landings were faked in a warehouse in Arizona.
"As for what happened, that is indeed the question. I genuinely don’t know."
As you cannot provide any supporting evidence, I think I'll side with Ross on this point.
The supporting evidence isn't anything Ross says but is the CAS decision, which is the finding that Houlihan doped. But keep believing the moon landings were faked in a warehouse in Arizona.
"As for what happened, that is indeed the question. I genuinely don’t know."
As you cannot provide any supporting evidence, I think I'll side with Ross on this point.
The supporting evidence isn't anything Ross says but is the CAS decision, which is the finding that Houlihan doped. But keep believing the moon landings were faked in a warehouse in Arizona.
Hmmmm. This is a conundrum.
On the one hand, Ross, with his long list of credentials and proven track record, who has read the CAS decision, says he genuinely doesn't know.
On the other hand, Armstronglivs, with no credentials, and no proven history, who has not read the CAS decision, nor Ross' take on it, says he knows.
That is a tough call, but I guess the tie-breaker is to go with the guy letsrun paid money to for his 5000-word breakdown of the CAS decision and supplementary Q&A responses.
But as always, thanks for your unsolicited and unsupported opinions on topics you seem to otherwise know very little about.