Killian Jornet's Everest summit might not have happened

.. wrote:

"High frequency" GPS data. Your repetative saying this is tabloid drama. And false. GoPro GPS data is not special and not "high frequency". Suunto GPS's are extremely advanced and all that's needed. Kilian had a top quality Suunto and Suunto is a sponsor of his.

"High frequency", in this case, means frequent measuring of time; nothing more than that.

Let's see here. Suunto is the sponsor who gives Kilian money to boost the prestige of their brand. The higher the prestige the more he makes. Certainly not a reason to fake anything is there?

Think more. wrote:

ok show your work wrote:

OK, show your work. Download the video and change the gps data so that it goes around Everest instead of to the top.

Just saying something is possible doesn't make it practical. Since it is so easy though please do this simple task and get back to us.

If it can be done is very relevant. Dismissing it unless everyone can easily alter the video is stupid. A large corporation with massive resources to be able to hire experts vs. some guy and you expect them to be able to afford to do the same thing? Don’t be such a fvcking idiot.

Of course it can be done. How hard it is to do does matter. SSL session keys can be cracked how hard one is to crack matters.

Maybe you should "think more" about how the world actually works instead of believing conspiracy theories like his sponsor payed a ton of money to an expert to cover this up. Then failed to make it look like it was a record time or that he even made the summit both times.

ok show your work wrote:

Of course it can be done. How hard it is to do does matter. SSL session keys can be cracked how hard one is to crack matters.

Maybe you should "think more" about how the world actually works instead of believing conspiracy theories like his sponsor payed a ton of money to an expert to cover this up. Then failed to make it look like it was a record time or that he even made the summit both times.

I think the question being asked has to do with:

1.) how long it took for them to magically produce GPS data that showed he made it to the top;

2.) who they provided this magic data too; and

3.) why there was no other evidence to show her made it to the summit - time of day, no photos, and a superior GPS that showed he didn't make it.

It's not that big a reach that after claiming to make it to the summit, making a movie about it, telling everyone the evidence would have to wait until after the movie came out, etc., that they would feel like they needed to come up with some evidence that they had promised. The fact that the evidence they provided is something they can manufacturer seems pretty relevant in the big picture.

Lets be honest here - they brought a film crew and planned to make a movie, yet somehow the one place that Kilian "selfie" Jornet doesn't think to take a photo is at the summit even though he had a camera. That makes sense to you? The straight forward answer is that there is only one reason this is so messy when it should have been incredibly straight forward, it didn't happen.

No. The simple answer and what makes more sense is that he made it to the top the first time but not in record time. Then didn't make it to the top the second time, but lied and said it was a record.

What makes no sense it that his sponsor would spend a bunch of time and money for an expert to fake the gopro gps data to make the first attempt look like it went to the top even though it wasn't fast enough to be a record anyway.

Why bother and then have nothing to back up the claim that the second attempt was a record and actually happened?

Either way, what does it matter. He didn't get a record and was caught lying about it. You really don't need a conspiracy theory of a sponsor paying an expert to modify the gopro data to fill in the blanks. That is just a distraction.

ok show your work wrote:

0. wrote:

Incorrect. We've spent the last couple days emailing with a number of people about this. GPS data for GoPro's (GoPro HERO5 and GoPro HERO6), one of which Kilian used, these are the only two GoPro's with GPS, can be drastically altered.

The original data can be downloaded, drastically altered, uploaded, on and on.

OK, show your work. Download the video and change the gps data so that it goes around Everest instead of to the top.

Just saying something is possible doesn't make it practical. Since it is so easy though please do this simple task and get back to us.

Nobody is going to take the time to make a major change to Kilian's GPS data file to prove a point. However, I will point out that just a few weeks ago, I was running in a place with a lot of narrow canyons and cliffs, and my GPS signal was pretty poor. At two different points, the watch logged that I ran straight up a cliff face at 300 mph for a few seconds at a time and added over a half mile of total extra distance that I didn't run. I downloaded Garmin's BaseCamp software and within about 5 minutes, I was able to figure out how to clean up the run and get rid of the errant points so that it would be a correct log of what I actually did without extra distance. The software also clearly has the capacity to alter the location and timing of points. Nobody is going to make very substantial changes to Kilian's GPS file just to prove a point, but you should realize that it is very much possible.

I agree that technically there is nothing stopping someone from forging GoPro GPMF data inside a video stream. But currently there exists no public tool to easily do that. Gopro does provide source code for a GPMF writer on GitHub but only a writer, and not the physics and mathematics you would need to generate the high frequency data for which there is much more than just GPS data in a GPMF stream.

The most plausible scenario here and which is shown by the evidence is that Jornet summited the first time and did not summit the second time as he claims, and especially not with the contradicting times he claims. As I wrote in my rebuttal to Jornet's email response to the release of the report, Jornet can't even keep his story straight about his claimed summit time for his second Everest from the Himalayan Database to the Late Motiv TV interview, to what he now claims to the public. How could we possibly consider that he would have the ability to convincingly forge GoPro GPMF data?

Now, if we were to talk about forging EXIF data in photos, then that is something that anyone would be capable of since there are so many tools that can change that data with no trace and no requirement of any complex calculations.

I summited a mountain last weekend and signed the summit register but my Delorme in reach said I did not - I was 20 meters away. So was the USGS register in the wrong spot? Or am I lying (or was the data off).

jorvack wrote:

I summited a mountain last weekend and signed the summit register but my Delorme in reach said I did not - I was 20 meters away. So was the USGS register in the wrong spot? Or am I lying (or was the data off).

Depends on how you define 20 meters away. How did you calculate that and using what reference material? Was it by looking at a map someone marked with a summit point? As I indicated in the Jornet report, some maps can be wrong and there are even a lot of websites out there showing the wrong GPS location for the summit of Everest. I used multiple sources to locate the real summit of Everest that agree to within 8 metres horizontally. Are you sure you are not looking at a wrongly drawn map?

Also, a 20 metre horizontal distance could be within the margin of error for a Delorme, especially if it is only sampling every few minutes and needs to recapture a GPS signal. A GoPro uses more power enabling it to use more satellites for a better position fix and samples GPS at 18 Hz.

If you are lying, do you need me to investigate?

Posty of the Year so far....

scam_watcheroo wrote:

If you are lying, do you need me to investigate?

Guilty

Guilty

Guilty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejizOV-IQEM

On page 59-61 of Andy Tavin's report [below] he plagiarizes Dan Howitt's August 2017 report [page 3-9 below] where Howitt reveals the fraud of Kilian's 1st climb GPS mapping, tracking, number data, etctc.

Tavin should provide explicit credit in his report wherever he uses Howitt's report.

Howitt's report -

https://drive.google

. com/file/d/1ste0p1l24dq8uKEjedwKGXgZ0GP7VCOP/view

Tavin's report -

https://drive.google

. com/file/d/1ste0p1l24dq8uKEjedwKGXgZ0GP7VCOP/view

Article from the editor of Marathon Investigation.

Distinguished runner and race organizer Karl Meltzer takes part in Comments below the article.

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2018/05/new-report-analyzes-kilian-jornets-everest-claims.html

Article from the editor of Marathon Investigation.

Distinguished runner and race organizer Karl Meltzer takes part in Comments below the article.

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2018/05/new-report-analyzes-kilian-jornets-everest-claims.html

Several months ago I received Kilian Jornet's GPS GoPro Information.

I analyzed it thoroughly over the last month. I submitted it to several GPS specialists also. They interpreted it thoroughly over the last month.

It in no way demonstrates any of what Andy Tavin (Scam_Watcheroo) claims. It does not prove nor disprove either of Kilian's 2 summit claims. Tavin believes it proves his 1st summit claim and disproves his 2nd summit claim.

The GPS Information can be interpreted in many ways, with many operating-programs, applications, topographical mapping systems, etc.

GPS Information can consist of abundant significant errors (waypoint tracking errors, time-stamp errors, location errors, elevation errors, etc). In no way does it always provide objective tracking of one's location and time.

On mountains, where climbers are on one side of a mountain, the GPS unit's access to satellites is very limited, and very sporadic. The mountain blocks the GPS's access to satellites. Also satellites move rapidly, and go out of sight often, and become inaccessible. And the GPS switches to using other satellites. This results in substantial errors, inaccuracy, etc.

Kilian's Everest climbs were multi hours in duration. The incidence of GPS errors for 15+ hour events on one side of a mountain is very high. Kilian's GPS Information is fraught with countless severe errors of all kinds. It is not even approximately objective.

GPS's cannot be the sole technology relied upon to prove or disprove events over land and over time. At best, it can be used as a secondary thing to support the basic objective methods of verification (objective witnesses, abundant photography, abundant video).

Kilian's Suunto GPS Watch Information, used by Dan Howitt, supplements Howitt's report against Kilian. Linked to here at Marathon Investigation.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qxidY63es1oZIc1lUNkUxuGb2bd60gXk0SMpZ_tcK2c/edit?usp=sharing

.......... Kilian's Suunto GPS Watch Information, used by Dan Howitt, supplements Howitt's report against Kilian. Linked to here at Marathon Investigation.

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/

Too long, didn't read it, but here it is:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2324076/ultrarunner-kilian-jornet-everest-controversy

That Outside Online article contains nothing from the analysis of the evidence. I don't think the author of that article read my report. *SIGH*

Killian knows he made it to the summit. He also knows he didn't set the FKT. He has already moved on to other projects like winning races and breaking long standing FKTs like the Bob Graham round. Planning other mountain adventures.

He doesn't sit around in his basement for days at a time trying to discredit what others are doing.

Time to get a real life..... wrote:

Killian knows he made it to the summit. He also knows he didn't set the FKT. He has already moved on to other projects like winning races and breaking long standing FKTs like the Bob Graham round. Planning other mountain adventures.

He doesn't sit around in his basement for days at a time trying to discredit what others are doing.

Did you even read my report?