trollism wrote:
It's also weird because British sportspeople get tested a lot and Kenyans don't.
This claim keeps getting posted and there is no proof it is true or false. UKAD posts NO testing statistics. Zero.
What's the basis for your claim?
trollism wrote:
It's also weird because British sportspeople get tested a lot and Kenyans don't.
This claim keeps getting posted and there is no proof it is true or false. UKAD posts NO testing statistics. Zero.
What's the basis for your claim?
Alex... wrote:
I am starting to believe that only R.Hall was not on the juice and that he has the clean world record.
And why should I believe his performances? If I apply the consistency of scrutiny and skepticism I see practiced by all the sleuths here, I should assume Mr. Hall to be as dirty as all the rest of the lot.
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
trollism wrote:It's also weird because British sportspeople get tested a lot and Kenyans don't.
This claim keeps getting posted and there is no proof it is true or false. UKAD posts NO testing statistics. Zero.
What's the basis for your claim?
What's the basis for most of the claims in your posts?
We know this,we know that ,all according to the oracle pop-pop
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
trollism wrote:It's also weird because British sportspeople get tested a lot and Kenyans don't.
This claim keeps getting posted and there is no proof it is true or false. UKAD posts NO testing statistics. Zero.
What's the basis for your claim?
I'm mostly ignorant about these issues so totally possible that I am misinterpresting, but this looks like statistics to me, and it looks liek a lot of tests:
http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/facts-and-figures/The period under review in this report is 1 January 31 March 2016. During this time, the domestic and
international Anti-Doping Testing Programme carried out 2044 tests.
The following table displays the outcome of these tests:
Testing Programme Summary
Successful Tests Quarter 4 1819
Unsuccessful Test Attempts Quarter 4 225
Total number of Tests Quarter 4 2044
Additional Samples collected Quarter 4 ï‚… 65
Year to date summary
Total number of Tests 7771
Total number of successful Tests 7101
3Q 2015 summary:
Between October and December 2015, 2042 Tests were attempted on behalf of 41 National Governing
Bodies, International Federations and National Anti-Doping Organisations. Tests conducted during Quarter
3 included:
• Football Association 651 Tests
• World Rugby 312 Tests
• Rugby Football League 219 Tests
• British Cycling Federation 107 Tests
• UK Athletics 91 Tests
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
El Keniano wrote: Everyone in every country on earth remembers Usain Bolt.Who, is never testing positive.
What's the basis for this one pop-pop?
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:
rojo wrote:Yeah Nike's money really stopped the feds from bustin Marion Jones, Justin Gatlin, etc. In this country, we actually have out of competition testing and a drug czar who WANTS to bust people. In Russia, they wanted to cover it up. In Kenya (and maybe Ethiopia), we learn there really has been zero testing of consequence.
C'mon Rojo think a little. BALCO only happened because there were Federal crimes with real penalties and a dead simple case on Conte to try and win.
Please recall Marion Jones was "never tested positive" and would have remained so if only she hadn't started some crazy/stupid check kiting scheme that forced her to admit to doping as a part of a Federal plea deal. Her excuses were legendary.
You also forgot to mention her confession amounted to only doped that one time with Conte/BALCO. True story!
The U.S. federations and international federations are just as corrupt as anything happening in Russia. Ok, maybe not passing samples through a hole in the wall, one at a time. But, pretty close.
It is only when law enforcement swoops in and the scale of the corruption at the federation becomes clear. How in the world are Aden's athletes not tripping bio-passport triggers? They have to be. The IAAF is not sanctioning.
This is completely ridiculous. To suggest that the US is "just as corrupt" as Russia in this matter is hyperbolic and patently false. There are cheaters in the US. There is corruption, sure. But there is not STATE-SPONSORED doping, not even close. Jesus.
Why would we need state sponsored doping when we have a corporate sponsored state?
Also Rita Jeptoo got caught by OOC testing in Kenya. But there's "zero testing of consequence" in Kenya according to wejo and others.
Might makes right is written all over this doping business.
El Keniano wrote:
trollism wrote:To be fair, Kenya competes in one small part of one sport and they still put the UK to 'shame' in terms of dope positives (and the UK is strong in many many sports.)
It's also weird because British sportspeople get tested a lot and Kenyans don't.
But I guess it all amounts to Kenya doesn't dope and Britain has a massive problem? Seems that way in your bitter world.
But it's the marquee sport of the Olympics Games. The one you really want and used to dominate until those uppity Kenyans forgot their place and dared to compete. It's why we're all here and not some rhythmic gymnastics forum. I'm a fan of track and field athletics. I don't care how many equestrian golds the UK won to shore up its place on the medals table. Everyone in every country on earth remembers Usain Bolt.
2 golds in London for the all conquering (and at that point, zero dope tested) Kenyans?
How many did GB get in track and field again? Just remind me.
the letter why wrote:
pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:C'mon Rojo think a little. BALCO only happened because there were Federal crimes with real penalties and a dead simple case on Conte to try and win.
Please recall Marion Jones was "never tested positive" and would have remained so if only she hadn't started some crazy/stupid check kiting scheme that forced her to admit to doping as a part of a Federal plea deal. Her excuses were legendary.
You also forgot to mention her confession amounted to only doped that one time with Conte/BALCO. True story!
The U.S. federations and international federations are just as corrupt as anything happening in Russia. Ok, maybe not passing samples through a hole in the wall, one at a time. But, pretty close.
It is only when law enforcement swoops in and the scale of the corruption at the federation becomes clear. How in the world are Aden's athletes not tripping bio-passport triggers? They have to be. The IAAF is not sanctioning.
This is completely ridiculous. To suggest that the US is "just as corrupt" as Russia in this matter is hyperbolic and patently false. There are cheaters in the US. There is corruption, sure. But there is not STATE-SPONSORED doping, not even close. Jesus.
It almost seems like an ideological battle is going on. Let's suppose for a moment that what we always hear - "all elite athletes are doping" - is true, more or less. After all, we know from cycling that it CAN be true in at least some sports - it wasn't just one or two bad apple cyclists from one or two countries doing the doping. Nearly every cyclist of any consequence was doping (and most of them were not Russian). It seems entirely plausible, and some evidence supports it, that track and field is just as dirty as cycling, regardless of nationality.
So in that case, what we are saying to Russia is, No No No! That is not how doping is done. Sure, you have to dope in order to be competitive, but you can't be so centrally organized about it! The proper way to dope is to have smaller training groups, and even single individuals, who procure their own dope through whatever means they can. More of a "free market doping" style rather than a centralized doping style.
13:09 man wrote:
the letter why wrote:This is completely ridiculous. To suggest that the US is "just as corrupt" as Russia in this matter is hyperbolic and patently false. There are cheaters in the US. There is corruption, sure. But there is not STATE-SPONSORED doping, not even close. Jesus.
It almost seems like an ideological battle is going on. Let's suppose for a moment that what we always hear - "all elite athletes are doping" - is true, more or less. After all, we know from cycling that it CAN be true in at least some sports - it wasn't just one or two bad apple cyclists from one or two countries doing the doping. Nearly every cyclist of any consequence was doping (and most of them were not Russian). It seems entirely plausible, and some evidence supports it, that track and field is just as dirty as cycling, regardless of nationality.
So in that case, what we are saying to Russia is, No No No! That is not how doping is done. Sure, you have to dope in order to be competitive, but you can't be so centrally organized about it! The proper way to dope is to have smaller training groups, and even single individuals, who procure their own dope through whatever means they can. More of a "free market doping" style rather than a centralized doping style.
better:
the new message is:
yes, organizing bodies, both national and international, used to look the other way, accept bribes and worse... That happened in cycling and track and field. That is a form of organized crime and we are trying to put a stop to it.
It's not saying there is a 'proper' way to dope - that's an absurd leap.
Link wrote:
No national organization is likely to ban Nike sponsored athletes - for anything.
USADA banned Gatlin, Jacobs, Merritt and many more. Why do you lie about this?
trollism wrote:
El Keniano wrote:But it's the marquee sport of the Olympics Games. The one you really want and used to dominate until those uppity Kenyans forgot their place and dared to compete. It's why we're all here and not some rhythmic gymnastics forum. I'm a fan of track and field athletics. I don't care how many equestrian golds the UK won to shore up its place on the medals table. Everyone in every country on earth remembers Usain Bolt.
2 golds in London for the all conquering (and at that point, zero dope tested) Kenyans?
How many did GB get in track and field again? Just remind me.
Who topped the medals table last year in Beijing? Oh, and half of your Athletics golds in your home Olympics by one AlSal & Jamba Juice product. Take him out and there's no athletics in the UK. Do I think he's been protected by UKAD while on a full on smear war against others? You bet!
the letter why wrote:
To suggest that the US is "just as corrupt" as Russia in this matter is hyperbolic and patently false. There are cheaters in the US. There is corruption, sure. But there is not STATE-SPONSORED doping, not even close. Jesus.
How do you know it's not even close? I'm not sure how anyone could know this.
By definition, if you uncover state sponsored doping, you get evidence on lots of people. But when doping is decentralized, as in the US, finding one doper doesn't give you evidence about all that many other dopers. So it's much harder to figure out what's going on when doping is decentralized.
That said, there is plenty of evidence that doping has been wide spread at times in the US (T&FN: "Steroids: The Breakfast of Champions"; 1983 Pan Am Games). We also know officials have often been complicit, as at the LA Olympics.
With the advances in microdosing, it will be even harder to find dopers today.
I'd love to believe you, but I need something more than outrage to go on.
13:09 man wrote:
It almost seems like an ideological battle is going on. Let's suppose for a moment that what we always hear - "all elite athletes are doping" - is true, more or less. After all, we know from cycling that it CAN be true in at least some sports - it wasn't just one or two bad apple cyclists from one or two countries doing the doping. Nearly every cyclist of any consequence was doping (and most of them were not Russian). It seems entirely plausible, and some evidence supports it, that track and field is just as dirty as cycling, regardless of nationality.
So in that case, what we are saying to Russia is, No No No! That is not how doping is done. Sure, you have to dope in order to be competitive, but you can't be so centrally organized about it! The proper way to dope is to have smaller training groups, and even single individuals, who procure their own dope through whatever means they can. More of a "free market doping" style rather than a centralized doping style.
This is batsh*t crazy, but insightful -- very insightful.
Well, except for the fact that the US is full of clean athletes, who just happen to be the ones I like.
agip wrote:
3Q 2015 summary:
Between October and December 2015, 2042 Tests were attempted on behalf of 41 National Governing
Bodies, International Federations and National Anti-Doping Organisations. Tests conducted during Quarter
3 included:
• Football Association 651 Tests
• World Rugby 312 Tests
• Rugby Football League 219 Tests
• British Cycling Federation 107 Tests
• UK Athletics 91 Tests
Again the URL:
http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/facts-and-figures/Thanks. It's been a while since I looked. I'm glad they are posting stats.
rojo wrote:
Ok. This article is huge. Everyone needs to read it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3651196/Drug-cops-swoop-coach-Jama-Aden-EPO-banned-substances-hotel-room.htmlMy main qusetion is 'how do you have 22 athletes in 4 hotel rooms?' It says there were 22 athletes but they only searched 4 hotel rooms. Why wouldn't they search them all?
He was detained by Spanish police along with an unnamed trainer from Morocco as 22 athletes who were also guests at the Sabadell hotel, including Ethiopia’s Dibaba, were drug-tested. The raid came after four weeks of round-the-clock surveillance following a three-year investigation Sportsmail has been working on with the IAAF world governing body since last year.
This may seem strange to some, but most foreign athletes prefer rooming together. I have seen 4-5 African athletes sharing a room with one bed; to the average African, a hotel room is the size of a house. I have seen elite African athletes travel with grits and spices and cook their own food. You have to keep in mind that between agents, taxes and family obligations, African athletes only get to keep a small percentage of their money. Once they start earning, they are charged back for everything. Even someone like GB probably shares a room when she travels. I actually think they like rooming together. What I am talking about is from many years ago, but I don't think that has changed very much.
In terms Mo, I think he might come out clean in this matter simply because the times periods where he has training with Aden are not the ideal times of the year for doping and are not long enough to get the best effects from doping. You actually need a couple of months of strong OOC doping and preferably several weeks of on/off micro doping June and July leading up to a global championship. Also, a smart multimillionaire Nike athlete is probably not going dope as part of a large group, Mo can afford to have a one-on-one relationship with a doping doctor if he felt inclined to dope. Btw, there have been athletes who trained with dirty coaches and athletes and choose not to dope themselves. I personally know an athlete who trained with a coach who offered them dope and knew some of her teammates were doping, but choose not to dope themselves. AW, LATC and Sprint Capitol for example was a combination of clean and dirty athletes.
El Keniano wrote:
Also Rita Jeptoo got caught by OOC testing in Kenya. But there's "zero testing of consequence" in Kenya according to wejo and others.
We've been through this El K. Kenya doesn't have an out of competition anti-doping programme.
Testers from abroad flying over to target test the extremely suspicious doesn't count.