Sunday Mail Has More Details on Paula's Blood Values and Off Scores + News She'll Put up £1m for an MRI lie detector

That is very interesting about using the pre-2009 data....hmmmm

This is another strange coincidence. Go check the front page here for what Lamine Diack has just confessed to, as it seems he has said that among others, the Nick Davies in your story here, the IAAF spokesman, was offered a bribe as part of the doping coverup. Nick denies the charge. Diack says a bribe was also offered to the IAAF head of ABP(can't remember his name), who was unavailable for comment.....and Lord Sebastian Coe still has not seen or noticed anything wrong......Coe said he hasn't even seen Seppelt's documentary......incredible.....

Things are moving faster than I anticipated.....the entire IAAF edifice

may soon crumble under the enormous weight of its own corruption.....It should be fun to watch!.....

Yes, let's wait. No need to put up a clock!

Anyway, we will figure this all out when the IAAF criminal investigation ends. I imagine their corruption may not be limited to Russia. We will know years from now one way or the other.

[/quote]

So the Times didn't release that the IAAF did. Earlier people thought the HGB was 14.8 Point being there is a lot of speculation and the IAAF actually released more data here than the Times. Yes I agree it would be better if it was all out but let's wait.[/quote]

Detection of autologous blood doping with adaptively evaluated biomarkers of doping: a longitudinal blinded study

Couple of interesting quotes here:

"Since no direct detection method for autologous blood transfusions exists, the most promising attempt is the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP) and its adaptive model that enables a longitudinal monitoring of hematologic measures to identify patterns of blood manipulations."

"there were no false-positive sequence results."

Be interesting to read the full article (not open access). I'd like to see the pattern on blood values from transfusion ms on a graph compared with Paula's pre and post 2003 race scores

Unfortunately, IAAF President Lamine Diack has just said that he offered a bribe to keep quiet about the Russian doping cover up to Pierre-Yves Garnier, who was in charge of the ABP at the IAAF and Gabriel Dolle, the director of anti-doping at the IAAF has just admitted involvement in covering up Russian doping positives and taking over $200,000 in bribes.......that might possibly lead to less people getting caught by our fancy ABP...... because bribes can really decrease the ABP test sensitivity for catching dopers............I guess you could consider it a hidden source of LAB ERROR.........It gets real hard to have positive test results when the test itself just goes away.........doesn't it?Busy day at the IAAF...........Fridays always are................

DHT123 wrote:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1537-2995.2011.03076.x/abstract

Detection of autologous blood doping with adaptively evaluated biomarkers of doping: a longitudinal blinded study

Couple of interesting quotes here:

"Since no direct detection method for autologous blood transfusions exists, the most promising attempt is the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP) and its adaptive model that enables a longitudinal monitoring of hematologic measures to identify patterns of blood manipulations."

"there were no false-positive sequence results."

Be interesting to read the full article (not open access). I'd like to see the pattern on blood values from transfusion ms on a graph compared with Paula's pre and post 2003 race scores

Don't any of you self appointed experts in hematology know anything about plasma shift?

Well here's a start for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_plasma#Plasma_shift

"Standing still for a prolonged period will cause an increase in transcapillary hydrostatic pressure. As a result, approximately 12% of blood plasma volume will cross into the extravascular compartment. This causes an increase in hematocrit"

I thought of another way to show everyone why Paula's large magnitude and rapid increases in hemoglobin values are suspicious.

Here are two studies on altitude training with a live-high,train-low method with altitude exposure at night, and their effect on hemoglobin values.

In the first, cyclists increased their hemoglobin values by 3.3% after 21 days(3 WEEKS) of altitude training compared to the control group at sea level.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19294411

In the second, runners increased their hemoglobin values by an average of 4.9% after 46days(6.5 WEEKS) of altitude training.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18069063

These are typical increases seen in many altitude studies.

Let's round up and make it a 5% increase after 6.5 WEEKS of altitude training. For Paula, that would increase her 2003 hemoglobin value by 5% from 12.0 to 12.6, but let's be generous and say she is a huge outlier in terms of altitude response at 2x average levels (because it is Paula) and she increases her value by 10%, so she would then increase her hemoglobin value by 10% to 13.2 after 6.5 WEEKS of altitude training.

But Paula at the 2003 half marathon had a hemoglobin value that went from 12.0 to 15.6, which is a 30% increase...... in 2 DAYS!!!

WOW!....that is what I mean by a LARGE MAGNITUDE (30% increase instead of 5%, which is 6 times more) and RAPID (2 days instead of 6.5 WEEKS) CHANGES........Does it look at all suspicious to you now with the comparison?...

Now, let's think of a plausible explanation for how Paula can have her hemoglobin levels go up by 6 times more than 6.5 WEEKS of altitude training in just 2 DAYS!!!.................

See, you guys have been wasting your time with 6 weeks of altitude training to get a mere 5% increase in your hemoglobin values.....

You think Paula might have a secret magic method that could cause huge hemoglobin increases in a really short amount of time (it is not EPO, which does not work in just 2 days, and dehydration already has been shown to not increase hemoglobin levels by this large of an increase)........It might be...............an.......autologous...blood....transfusion.......

I am sure she MAY come up with a valid explanation........Paula sure seems like SUPERWOMAN!.......in terms of blood test results .....Go Paula!!!.........

I'm glad we got this thread away from EPO usage and towards ABT as that to me seems the most likely technique used by PR if she is indeed 'cheating' (assuming you can call giving yourself your own blood 'cheating').

It fits her claim that she would do a lie detector to prove that she has never taken 'drugs'.

And it fits her seemingly extensive knowledge (dating back to 2003 at the very least) of her own blood parameters and how they vary.

No smoking gun of course, but we know that gun will never be found.

There are a couple of new angles that I think we can take on this affair, and the wider drug 'cover up' in athletics, which may well extend beyond the IAAF.

I'll start first with the Victor Conte accusations that were recently made toward WADA and Dick Pound.

In short, Victor was hired by WADA in 2007 in a 'poacher turned gamekeeper' role. He told WADA of all the new techniques and products available to athletes to facilitate their cheating without detection. The idea was that Conte's knowledge could improve WADA's testing procedures and knowledge around when in the calendar to target athletes for particular banned substances.

Conte eventually found that, not just had WADA ignored his documented recommendations, but they had actually destroyed the documentation.

Further, Conte claims that WADA were complicit in allowing athletes to get away with taking PEDs by:

a) making little or no effort to test for the new synthetic PEDs he had identified to them

b) actually reducing tests around the time of the year he said that they must increase testing

I was recently asked to dig out and publish a link to Conte's interview with the BBC on this matter. I have been unable to find the whole interview, but finally I have found at least an excerpt of it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03b17yy

It may not be available to those outside of the UK but I hope that it is, or there is some way you can access it.

It's a shame that the whole interview (approx. 4-5 minutes) isn't there, as it is pretty explosive. And the good bits are missing from the link above. To directly accuse WADA and Dick Pound of helping the drug-takers is pretty extreme. I know it's Victor 'BALCO' Conte we are talking about here, but in the current atmosphere I think we should entertain pretty much anyone's views.

I'll keep digging to see if I can find the whole interview.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Those rises are plasma shifts, plasma moving out of the blood. You are just clueless, like Ross Tucker. You can read about this in any decent physiology textbook.

Plasma shift wrote:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Those rises are plasma shifts, plasma moving out of the blood. You are just clueless, like Ross Tucker. You can read about this in any decent physiology textbook.

You argue like the IAAF, i.e. qualitatively without loooking at the actual numbers. Of course there are mechanism that occur with concentration increases after racing, but no combination thereof can explain a 30% hemoglobin increase after racing for 67 minutes in October with scattered clouds at 21 - 24 C (depending on the weather station). To demonstrate this, several papers with actual data were shown here and by Tucker quite recently.

I posted the link somewhere a long time ago in this thread.....

cleans wrote:

I was recently asked to dig out and publish a link to Conte's interview with the BBC on this matter. I have been unable to find the whole interview, but finally I have found at least an excerpt of it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03b17yy

It may not be available to those outside of the UK but I hope that it is, or there is some way you can access it.

The full interview is here:

@32:00 minutes (The entire podcast is worth listening to.)

Victor Conte is not accusing Richard Pound. Victor Conte respects Richard Pound, but he does not trust WADA.

If WADA wants to earn some credibility then it needs to hire Victor Conte. It sometimes takes a thief to catch a thief. I trust Victor Conte. He has changed sides.

The only positive news I have heard on the war against doping is that the new test for EPO has a detection period of at least 4 weeks, and this new test appears to be unbeatable.

When the new ‘omics’ test is validated, WADA should immediately retest samples from the 2012 Olympics. I expect that they are going to find a huge number of positive tests for EPO.

Do we have any independent confirmation of anything Conte said? Has WADA ever confirmed using him as a consultant?

Jeez, this thread is tedious. Radcliffe is a doper. Anyone with integrity and a brain knows that Radcliffe is guilty.

Good thing

Plasma shift wrote:

Don't any of you self appointed experts in hematology know anything about plasma shift?

Well here's a start for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_plasma#Plasma_shift

"Standing still for a prolonged period will cause an increase in transcapillary hydrostatic pressure. As a result, approximately 12% of blood plasma volume will cross into the extravascular compartment. This causes an increase in hematocrit"

WADA aren't dumb. They know how to collect samples, and have a standardized procedure for doing so. The 2003 version says

D4.4 The DCO/Chaperone and Athlete shall proceed to the area where the Sample will be provided.

D.4.5 The DCO shall ensure the Athlete is offered comfortable conditions including being in a relaxed position for at least 10 minutes prior to providing a Sample

.

from

10 minutes is still the standard sitting time for BP samples.

Reposting this for the Brosjos and Larkimm in case they miss it somehow.The summary: Natural increases in hemoglobin at altitude (LHTL method) are single-digit percentages. Paula reported 10's of percent increase.EPO cheats out Paula.

Scores spike because of EPO use, and the 100% safe and effective response is "I was at altitude." A natural change of a few percent versus double digit does not matter in the bio-passport. It's all permitted. That's a hole that has never been closed with no incentive to close it on the part of the sports federations.

Do not confuse the large gaps in the system with the idea that the system is "no good at all." The system itself is actually quite good as Ashenden and Parisotto's analysis of Seppelt's data leak show.

rjm33, thank you for taking the time to explain it. I know it is time consuming to do it.

asm

Plasma shift wrote:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Those rises are plasma shifts, plasma moving out of the blood. You are just clueless, like Ross Tucker. You can read about this in any decent physiology textbook.

Maybe you'd have a better chance arguing the Earth is flat?

Plasma decreases at altitude, in single-digit scores. Win for you!!!

NO ONE is discussing single-digit changes for Paula because the data shows double-digit changes.

Please try again.

There were rumours a few years ago of British distance athletes using saline drips before major games in hot weather, this was before it was banned.