sadly nothing will come of any lawsuit. the administration is behind the coach so they won't do anything either. I would love to think this will reach the mainstream media and give them some bad publicity, but it won't.
You just have to hope that she's very unsuccessful, gets canned and thrown away like trash by the school b/c "they want to go in another direction." the only way she will get what she deserves. I hope it happens. I wish her and UT nothing but failure and disappointment.
Coach Beth has shown herself to be a fully qualified candidate for USATF or maybe even Nike leadership with all this, so I don't think it's hurt her career much, either.
Link wrote:
By the way, this is how the market works. It's not about 'whining'. It's about suffering the natural consequences of doing sh*tty things to people, and making them your enemies. Wait, this is all going to come back ten fold on her.
No. Not at all. There's no morality in an economic transaction.
She has her supporters at the school and the silence means they still support her.
My favorite is she's such a good coach she can't "coach" these kids into the runners she wants? Apparently not.
Link wrote:
Tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.....
It's only a matter of time, BAS, only a matter of time....
What the hell does that mean?
and now for a surprise: truth wrote:
What this thread lacks is a voice from someone who has no stake in the NCAA system at all. Even the brojos (actually, especially them) have an interest in the whole deal:
They ran for HS team(s) to get noticed by recruiters (recruiters don't peruse road results and track competitions are difficult to access without school affiliation)
They competed and used all the elegibility they could in the NCAA
Some self-esteem is (even years later) connected to running for a school: conference titles, team titles, PRs set while there, etc.
They currently coach, formerly coached, and/or want to coach for some NCAA affiliated program.
If none of the above describes you - and rest assured it describes 99% of the MB audience (the only posters here who have absolutely nothing to do with any NCAA program are those who couldn't get in on it but did try to) - then you may feel like I do.
I don't, didn't, and did not try to run for any NCAA member school. As a result, I had no need to run for my HS team as appearing in results accessible by recruiters was not a priority in the least. I realize that no one else on this forum is described by these facts, so I'm the only one who can lay down an objective opinion. I simply have no love for the NCAA. I literally have no dog in the fight.
So here's the deal: any school is welcome to offer scholarships to anyone elegible to participate (ie cannot have accepted prize money but could have taken free gear). These can be anyone they damn well feel like giving the dough to. The fat aunt of the ADs girlfriend to get paid back for all the great holliday dinners. The coach's wheelchair-bound next-door-neighbor's grandpa who didn't throw rocks as the young coach ran by. A shockingly unathletic kid who has great academic potential but can't cash in on it, prompting everyon of campus to feel sorry for her.
These programs also have the right to give these checks to someone on a trial basis - ie for less than 5 years. "Hey junior, you've got one season to win a conference title for us, then you can stay. If not, you're out.". Totally fine. It's their money. You are not owed any of it. Your buddy's neice is not owed anything. In fact, they're welcome to not give out a dime in scholarships. If you want to participate, walk on. I'll go one step further: they are allowed to not have a team at all. Don't have to hire a coach, build facilities, get insurance to cover inevitable mishaps, etc.
Why all the whining on the boards whenever a school cuts the program all together? Who cares when someone you've heard of get a scholarship cut? Are schools obligated to do anything? Are they even obligated to exist? Are you the same crowd that freaks out when the only grocery store in a poor neighborhood decides to pull up stakes? Do you all feel that the world owes you an education, a living, health care and transportation?
Get a grip on reality and get a life folks. About the only thing in the whole cosmic order of the universe less significant than who won an NCAA meet is who won the National Scabble tournament. You people (yes, I include LRC staff) are an embarrassment to the sport. This thread is truly a joke.
Dude, you suck. Go away. This chick is such a B in the first place I don't know how she cons people into running for her.
I find it difficult to understand how cutting recruited athletes from the team prior to their season and without any cause whatsoever is legal. The NCAA needs to look at this and the University of Tennessee needs to look very hard at its policies. The embarrassing thing is that this coach is apparently doing this in order to get a lot of cheap distance runners on minimal partial scholarships. Going it on the cheap with distance runners with families who can pay the remainder and who are willing to accept any little crumbs to run D1, in other words.
pop_pop! wrote:
No. Not at all. There's no morality in an economic transaction.
.
What so many 'free market' people don't understand is that there can be morality if it's important to the customer. If a customer refuses to shop at a store that doesn't offer healthcare to its employees, then they'll offer it. If a customer wants healthy food, then a restaurant will offer it.
So if the customer (in this case recruits) view morality as important then it's important.
rojo wrote:
Link wrote:Tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.....
It's only a matter of time, BAS, only a matter of time....
What the hell does that mean?
It means that consequences are coming. The 'tick' is the sound a clock makes.... Sheeez! When you have to explain this it kind of takes the zing out of it.
Put it this way: It's impossible to behave the way BAS has without suffering consequences. Someone will sue her. She won't get the recruits she needs to go 'in the direction' she wants to go. After the Exxon Veldez oil spill, people. lots of them, drove past Exxon stations to buy their gas elsewhere. McDonalds is facing a crisis right now because people learned how cra**y their food is, thanks to the fact getting out. The facts about BAS are now getting out. That's what I mean
rojo wrote:
Link wrote:Tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.....
It's only a matter of time, BAS, only a matter of time....
What the hell does that mean?
It means that consequences are coming. The 'tick' is the sound a clock makes.... Sheeez! When you have to explain this it kind of takes the zing out of it.
Put it this way: It's impossible to behave the way BAS has without suffering consequences. Someone will sue her. She won't get the recruits she needs to go 'in the direction' she wants to go. After the Exxon Veldez oil spill, people. lots of them, drove past Exxon stations to buy their gas elsewhere. McDonalds is facing a crisis right now because people learned how cra**y their food is, thanks to the fact getting out. The facts about BAS are now getting out. That's what I mean
rojo wrote:
pop_pop! wrote:No. Not at all. There's no morality in an economic transaction.
.
What so many 'free market' people don't understand is that there can be morality if it's important to the customer. If a customer refuses to shop at a store that doesn't offer healthcare to its employees, then they'll offer it. If a customer wants healthy food, then a restaurant will offer it.
So if the customer (in this case recruits) view morality as important then it's important.
No, it's more like a beef producer that sells steaks some of which are infected with mad cow disease. Then, after some customers die, representatives of the company go on message boards saying: 'boo hoo, caveat emptor'. Maaaybeee... but would you but beef from that company? I wouldn't. Nor would most people. And not for to punish the company for moral reasons either (or only...). But, because I don't want to get mad cow disease and die.
Lie down with dogs, get up with flies. Why would anybody ever drive through Knoxville; let alone go to school there?
and now for a surprise: truth wrote:
Get a grip on reality and get a life folks. About the only thing in the whole cosmic order of the universe less significant than who won an NCAA meet is who won the National Scabble tournament. You people (yes, I include LRC staff) are an embarrassment to the sport. This thread is truly a joke.
No Beth, YOU are am embarrassment to the sport. YOU are am embarrassment to all institutions of higher learning. YOU are an embarrassment to your gender. YOU are an embarrassment to the profession of coaching. YOU are an embarrassment to human decency and fairness.
Want more, Beth?
No. You people are missing the BIG picture.
The University of Tennessee is the problem.
They hired her and have kept her. Surely they are aware of her antics. This can't be something that's been kept secret.
To hear these allegations, and see the proof and then support her. then it's the university.
Example: Your kid commits a crime. You stand by him/her. your kid commits another crime, and then another, do you still send the message that it's ok?
rojo wrote:
What so many 'free market' people don't understand is that there can be morality if it's important to the customer. If a customer refuses to shop at a store that doesn't offer healthcare to its employees, then they'll offer it. If a customer wants healthy food, then a restaurant will offer it.
So if the customer (in this case recruits) view morality as important then it's important.
I agree with what you are saying. BUT, the topic of this thread is proof that the morality aspect is optional and asymmetric. Any sense of "morality" is usually imposed by regulation.
I don't think it's going to end well. And not because of the terrible treatment, but, because someone believes this is a path to success. I hope that makes sense.
As someone else wisely posted, this is the perfect setup for a transition to USATF.
I have a son that runs DI.
I have a daughter who's in HS with some talent. She may make it to the DI level. If she does, I would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS LET HER RUN FOR TENNESSEE.
I suspect there are many other parents like me.
Karma's a b_tch...
nitwit lion wrote:
Coach Beth has shown herself to be a fully qualified candidate for USATF or maybe even Nike leadership with all this, so I don't think it's hurt her career much, either.
You're way too late on that one, she has already screwed things up as the Olympic coach in 2004...
pop_pop! wrote:
Link wrote:By the way, this is how the market works. It's not about 'whining'. It's about suffering the natural consequences of doing sh*tty things to people, and making them your enemies. Wait, this is all going to come back ten fold on her.
No. Not at all. There's no morality in an economic transaction.
She has her supporters at the school and the silence means they still support her.
My favorite is she's such a good coach she can't "coach" these kids into the runners she wants? Apparently not.
Where in the world do you get the idea that silence from the administration means that they support her?!? It means they're busy finding the best way to let her go without admitting any sort of complicity. Silence means they're figuring out a CYA strategy. That's almost the full-time job of administrators in higher ed.
turrible wrote:
sadly nothing will come of any lawsuit. the administration is behind the coach so they won't do anything either. I would love to think this will reach the mainstream media and give them some bad publicity, but it won't.
You just have to hope that she's very unsuccessful, gets canned and thrown away like trash by the school b/c "they want to go in another direction." the only way she will get what she deserves. I hope it happens. I wish her and UT nothing but failure and disappointment.
It's true. Unfortunately, being a douchebag isn't illegal. But let the free market speak. Lots of people all over the country who are involved in the sport know what happened here.
Lol have you looked at a stock chart recently? MCD is near all time highs. Whole foods is crashing because it's whole wallet and Healthy food taste bad. Warren has it right....people want Kraft, cola, and other sweet and salty food stuffs...you can't chase God and money. Oh, and Exxon is one of the top oil companies, so I guess people got over it.
An SEC championship? Who cares? Even an ncaa championship. What hollow victories those will be if they even come. In money losing sports, well in all sports, but especially in those, it should be considered part of a coaches job to build the character of their athletes. They should be evaluated on the way they mentor their athletes as people as well as improve their times.
There's always someone faster, someone better. What you win doesn't matter in the end, it's the kind of person that you are. Look at Lance Armstrong. High level sport is so full of narcissists and ego-maniacs that its almost unbearable for me to follow it at this point. Thank god for those rare people like Meb Keflezghi.