Pose = crazy???

Posenaked wrote:

This is what confuses me about pose. These people, ok maybe its just 2 or 3 of them, are vehemently denying any criticism of pose and doing all that they can to make it look good.

Two reasons:

1. There's no greater zealot than the one who just "got religion"

2. Money: If you were making money off your website, you might be a little tempted to disagree with anything that might reduce your profits.

Jim,

No, there was no typo. What I explained to you was why Pose Method prescribes landing with the CM over the ball of the foot, because this is the point in which the body can begin to move forward. Until this point there is NO forward progress of the body. Vertical displacement is happening via muscle/tendons elastic properties, optimally between 4 and 6 centimeters in order to shift our body weight from one support foot to the next.

Here's why: Excellent response.

When I was writing that hypothetical about running backwards I didn't want to come across as anti-pose, though I believe they are all crazy. It was a response like yours I was looking for. A RATIONAL person, who developed a sound, successful training program would have taken the approach I suggested in my post under the name posenaked. However, you can see by Gatorade and Jhuffs reponses here, that they are clearly not rational people.

Think about it, why would anyone defend something like running form so staunchly, something that inherently lacks substantial controversy (its not like were dealing with religion here, but huffman and gatorade make it seem like that). These people are defending pose, and doing so to a few people that are clearly never going to buy into it (like Asterix, whom I applaud for his tireless efforts this thread... by the way, I saw some bumper sticker the other day which I think you should have, it had some company name on it, not sure what company, just a bunch of initials, and it said "company name, proving idiots wrong since 1982").

I will not answer my own question, you people can answer it for yourselves, just think: Why would huffman and gatorade so vigorously defend pose? If you had developed pose and werent trying to make a quick buck from a moron off it, and truly believed it worked, would you defend it as staunchly? (keep in mind neither of these people developed pose, this isnt like defending their brainchild or anything.)

I just want to reiterate how impressed I am by "here's why"'s answers. I didn't expect anything that dead on. Not to suck his dick anymore, but in all my time trying to bust the heads of morons on this site, never have I had back up from that clutch.

Thank you.

Jhuffman wrote:

What I explained to you was why Pose Method prescribes landing with the CM over the ball of the foot, because this is the point in which the body can begin to move forward. Until this point there is NO forward progress of the body. Vertical displacement is happening via muscle/tendons elastic properties, optimally between 4 and 6 centimeters in order to shift our body weight from one support foot to the next.

Just to be clear, are you saying that all of the vertical displacement comes from the energy stored in the muscles/tendons from the prior landing? Further, is any of this stored energy also used as part of the horizontal movement, or does it just go into the vertical?

Yes, it is also a part of the horizontal movement.

Yes, the muscle/tendon elasticity is all that is needed to bring the CM to the optimal position.

Posenaked,

It could just be that some people have compassion for their fellow runners and would like to help them. I understand that not every runner wants my help, that is why I try to give advice to those who seem to be seeking alternative solutions(thus want help). As for this thread, the only reason I continue to respond is because I do believe that there is some positive to come from the discussion. Good day!

Now huffy, I think you would agree with the statement that Renato Canova has done more for the sport than you. And on this message board Renato has been kind enough to answer training questions from some athletes far below his usual standard. However, if I, for example, started a thread saying "Renato Canova Can't Train Runners and his Athletes Get Injured All the Time", do you think Renato would get on here and spend 25 pages defending himself? Do you think he would even pay any attention to the thread?

Every so often there is a thread that claims that Warhurst or Wetmore are terrible coaches. These threads never make it past a few pages. Do you know why this is? Because the people defending Wetmore or Warhurst don't feel some incessant need to prove themselves right. They simply understand that not every coach is right for every athlete, but that overall Warhurst and Wetmore are both damn fine coaches, and if you can't appreciate that, too bad for you.

Is the reason you so vehemently defend yourself and your training scheme here because you simply have more (as you put it) "compassion" for your fellow runner? Or are there other motives?

Posenaked=brawn,

You still don't get it do you. Maybe if I use capital letters it might help, I AM NOT MAKING MONEY BY DISCUSSING POSE METHOD ON THIS WEBSITE. The only reason I post on this site at all is because I want to give advice to runners who are seeking it. I believe the Pose Method running technique is the most ideal way to run PERIOD. So, you probably will continue not to believe me but I repeat there are no other motives. Good day!

Jhuffman would fall under reason #1, not #2

here's why wrote:

Jhuffman would fall under reason #1, not #2

Actually, he would probably fall under both. Notice how he said, in all caps, that he doesn't make money off of defending pose on this website. However, he neglects to mention that someone is making money off of the POSEtech website, which may or may not get a large base of their customers from letsrun. Who is making money off of POSE, I do not know. I don't think it is right that someone is making money off of such a flawed system, but alas.

I wonder if jhuffman kicks some money wejo's way for all the advertising he does here?

So huffman, you would say that you are just looking out for other runners then. Most of the people arguing with you here are not going to be won over by your flawed arguing and lack of understanding of science. You are promoting pose in an arena that is genuinely unfriendly to the idea. By doing this you come across as annoying and a zealot, effectually doing a disservice to the training regimen you love.

Also, you are not the only person defending it here, Gatorade has been defending just as much. So while you might not make a dime, and neither might Gatorade, someone or some people are.

Like I said, Renato Canova has done much more for the sport than you (you should't get offended by this, this isn't an insult, the man has done more for the sport than almost any coach out there) and I would guess, just randomly guess that he is interested in the improvement of all runners (as can be seen through his contributions to this board). However, if someone were to tell Renato during that 100-page thread about improving lactatewhatever, that he sucks as a coach and is all wrong, do you think Renato would even address him? What if 5 people did? Renato likely would just ignore these people, because if they are going to be unreceptive to a training program that he believes works, there is no need to convince them.

JimFiore wrote:

Just to be clear, are you saying that all of the vertical displacement comes from the energy stored in the muscles/tendons from the prior landing?

Jhuffman wrote:

Yes, it is also a part of the horizontal movement.

JimFiore wrote:

Further, is any of this stored energy also used as part of the horizontal movement, or does it just go into the vertical?

Jhuffman wrote:

Yes, the muscle/tendon elasticity is all that is needed to bring the CM to the optimal position.

OK, now that's specific and something I can deal with. Gatorade and other pose people, are you in agreement with Jhuffman?

Ooops. I apologize for getting jHuffman's answers to my questions swapped.

Isn't JHuffman far faster than anyone talking on this thread? I believe so. It is odd that people question what works for someone they wish they were as fast as.

Maybe I missed this on the other 24 other pages... doesn't the body experience 3X body weight when running? Wouldn't that mean muscle elasticity is the prime mover of the body when running since the legs can’t possibly yield that much energy for hours at a time?

He's faster than me, but I've only been running for two years. I actually don't have that much of a desire to get faster as I've already far, far exceeded my own expectations, running 4:09 full mile and 14:485k. I started only for health purposes (I had a long baseball career, so according to many of you I've only been an athlete for two years I guess). But yeah, huffman is faster than me, by what 10-12 seconds for the mile? That's quite a bit, but he als ran at Arkansas and has several years as an elite under his belt. Not saying this makes me a comparable runner, but its not like I'm in awe of this dude.

Anyway, you managed to completely misunderstand my point. I am not claiming that pose does not work. I will not retype my post for the clarification of one idiot, but reread it. You have zero reading comprehension, if my post is the one you were actually responding to (you did say people, plural, so maybe not, but then again you sound like an idiot so i can't be sure).

That's great Posenaked=brawn! You are fast, so you are excused from being included with the other "people".

And you are right, Posenaked=brawn, I have zero reading comprehension!