Literally no one here is against someone having gender dysphoria or identifying as the opposite sex.
You can speak for yourself, but there is a poster on this thread who wrote "Here's the actual thing: There is no such thing as a transperson."
Imagine being told that you don't even exist.
They meant that there's no such thing as being transgender/transexual, they're just a person with gender dysphoria. You can't actually change your sex though. The idea of "gender" is also debatable. I particularly don't believe that wearing clothes or doing my hair the way a woman typically would makes me a woman.
Can you point to an actual trans person who is making this claim?
Anyone who believes in the idea of "gender."
I'll step up.
Quotes only get nested two deep these days, but the claim you claim I'm making is that "wearing clothes or doing my hair the way a woman typically would makes me a woman."
I believe in the idea of gender, but gender identity, gender roles, and gender expression all get lumped under that. Here's what I believe, more specifically.
Gender identity, the sense of oneself as a man, woman, both, or neither, and which primary and secondary sex characteristics one should have, is innate and subconscious.
Gender roles vary by society (this should be obvious), but with some very clear tendencies (this should also be obvious). No society overwhelmingly sends women to war, to the exclusion of men, or delegates childcare overwhelmingly to men, to the exclusion of women.
Gender expression relates to what you're talking about, and again, varies by society, but with clear tendencies -- less extreme than the examples I gave. Men in pre-revolutionary France dressed very differently than in the USA in the 1950s, but where there is any clothing more complicated than a loincloth, "men wear this" and "women wear that" will appear in some form.
It appears clear to me that people will tend to want to express their gender relative to the society they're in. The pre-revolutionary France expression is very different from the 1950s US expression, but men usually want to be seen as men and women usually want to be seen as women, whether cis or trans. This goes for subcultures too: women in male-dominated industries, while still wanting to be seen as women, will often make an effort not to come across as too feminine, by the standards of their wider society. (It may be true that the kind of women who get into male-dominated industries are less feminine than the norm anyway, but even the ones who are more typically feminine will often play it down in those workplaces.)
So no, wearing clothes or doing hair in a certain way doesn't make one a woman, but being a woman -- cis or trans -- might make someone want to do those things, to show the world their sense of who they are, and to feel more embodied as themselves.
You can speak for yourself, but there is a poster on this thread who wrote "Here's the actual thing: There is no such thing as a transperson."
Imagine being told that you don't even exist.
They meant that there's no such thing as being transgender/transexual, they're just a person with gender dysphoria. You can't actually change your sex though. The idea of "gender" is also debatable. I particularly don't believe that wearing clothes or doing my hair the way a woman typically would makes me a woman.
"A person with gender dysphoria" is what someone who is transgender is.
Currently it's possible to change legal sex, hormonal sex, many of the secondary sex characteristics that proceed from that, primary sex characteristics (i.e, genital configuration), and probably some other meanings of sex that I'm forgetting. Not chromosomes, but those largely matter only for their downstream effects.
Plenty of trans people have lived their entire adult lives, or nearly so, as the sex they assert themselves to be, not that of their anatomy at birth. Some, like Kim Petras, have lived as themselves since their childhood. Their lives prove you wrong. That they cannot be cis women does not prove you right.
To quote Lynn Conway, who has lived an extraordinary life, including and beyond her work as a microchip engineering pioneer and professor, before and after transition (the "after" is the last 55 years): "Dr. Benjamin's methods were then considered "unsound methods" by a medical establishment which still recommended institutionalization and shock therapy for transsexual people, and which called "sex-changes" transgressions against nature - - Fortunately, Dr. Benjamin's methods for gender transition were truly "sound methods" after all - - as tens of thousands of successfully transitioned people have proven since then. His methods worked for me too. So, remember that great old engineering principle: What works - works! In the end, if the bridge stands, it stands, no matter what others may think!"
I believe in the idea of gender, and I think the claim (you can become a woman by changing your clothes and hairstyle) is completely ridiculous.
I'd suggest you stop fighting invisible enemies you have created in your imagination.
Well then you don't really believe in gender. Gender is a really faulty term that I don't particularly believe is valid, I think with advances in neuroscience and evolutionary biology that sex differences in behavior are based more in biology than culture, but I try to meet people where they're at. However, gender includes the social and behavioral roles and ways of presenting as a man or woman. Therefor, if you present yourself and act like a woman by dressing up as one, wearing makeup as that is what is culturally accepted as the norm, then you are a woman according to Gender Theory.
They meant that there's no such thing as being transgender/transexual, they're just a person with gender dysphoria. You can't actually change your sex though. The idea of "gender" is also debatable. I particularly don't believe that wearing clothes or doing my hair the way a woman typically would makes me a woman.
"A person with gender dysphoria" is what someone who is transgender is.
Currently it's possible to change legal sex, hormonal sex, many of the secondary sex characteristics that proceed from that, primary sex characteristics (i.e, genital configuration), and probably some other meanings of sex that I'm forgetting. Not chromosomes, but those largely matter only for their downstream effects.
Plenty of trans people have lived their entire adult lives, or nearly so, as the sex they assert themselves to be, not that of their anatomy at birth. Some, like Kim Petras, have lived as themselves since their childhood. Their lives prove you wrong. That they cannot be cis women does not prove you right.
To quote Lynn Conway, who has lived an extraordinary life, including and beyond her work as a microchip engineering pioneer and professor, before and after transition (the "after" is the last 55 years): "Dr. Benjamin's methods were then considered "unsound methods" by a medical establishment which still recommended institutionalization and shock therapy for transsexual people, and which called "sex-changes" transgressions against nature - - Fortunately, Dr. Benjamin's methods for gender transition were truly "sound methods" after all - - as tens of thousands of successfully transitioned people have proven since then. His methods worked for me too. So, remember that great old engineering principle: What works - works! In the end, if the bridge stands, it stands, no matter what others may think!"
I can accept that gender-affirming interventions may let people alter their physiology to more closely resemble the opposite sex, but they are still the same sex.
They meant that there's no such thing as being transgender/transexual, they're just a person with gender dysphoria. You can't actually change your sex though. The idea of "gender" is also debatable. I particularly don't believe that wearing clothes or doing my hair the way a woman typically would makes me a woman.
"A person with gender dysphoria" is what someone who is transgender is.
You don't need another term for it. There is already a definition of a person with gender dysphoria and that is "A biological male/female with a mental disorder."
Start calling them a "biological male with a mental disorder" instead of a transwoman and I'm good with that.
"A person with gender dysphoria" is what someone who is transgender is.
You don't need another term for it. There is already a definition of a person with gender dysphoria and that is "A biological male/female with a mental disorder."
Start calling them a "biological male with a mental disorder" instead of a transwoman and I'm good with that.
The more I learn about the current transgender movement, the more I learn it's not just people with generic gender dysphoria who identify under the label of "trans." There are currently lots of converging subsets of people identifying as trans for different reasons - to find an identity, to find an explanation for their feeling of alienation or symptoms of mental illnesses such as borderline or autism, people with autogynephilia (men who cross-dress as a fetish), people dissociating from trauma under a new identity, people with body dysmorphia or self-esteem issues related to their bodies. It's all way more complex than either side of the argument is really letting on. Of course, the medical industry is set to profit off of these lost people, and nobody is allowed to talk about it without being labeled a "transphobe."
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I believe in the idea of gender, and I think the claim (you can become a woman by changing your clothes and hairstyle) is completely ridiculous.
I'd suggest you stop fighting invisible enemies you have created in your imagination.
Well then you don't really believe in gender. Gender is a really faulty term that I don't particularly believe is valid, I think with advances in neuroscience and evolutionary biology that sex differences in behavior are based more in biology than culture, but I try to meet people where they're at. However, gender includes the social and behavioral roles and ways of presenting as a man or woman. Therefor, if you present yourself and act like a woman by dressing up as one, wearing makeup as that is what is culturally accepted as the norm, then you are a woman according to Gender Theory.
I don't believe in "Gender Theory" as you define it. That's different from not believing in the idea of gender.
Here is a big news for you. You are not the only person in the world who is entitled to define the idea of gender.
Of course, the medical industry is set to profit off of these lost people, and nobody is allowed to talk about it without being labeled a "transphobe."
I think you are misinformed on this. Most minors who are diagnosed as having gender dysphoria are not put on any medication. And many more are turned away by medical professionals as not having gender dysphoria.
Most "gender trenders" never see any medical professional because they are afraid they would be told they don't have any gender dysphoria. Therefore, they insist having medical diagnosis is not necessary to be transgender. Those are the people who label anyone who disagrees with them as "transphobe." (Or "trans medicalist" in case those people are transgender themselves.)
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Well then you don't really believe in gender. Gender is a really faulty term that I don't particularly believe is valid, I think with advances in neuroscience and evolutionary biology that sex differences in behavior are based more in biology than culture, but I try to meet people where they're at. However, gender includes the social and behavioral roles and ways of presenting as a man or woman. Therefor, if you present yourself and act like a woman by dressing up as one, wearing makeup as that is what is culturally accepted as the norm, then you are a woman according to Gender Theory.
I don't believe in "Gender Theory" as you define it. That's different from not believing in the idea of gender.
Here is a big news for you. You are not the only person in the world who is entitled to define the idea of gender.
Well you haven't given a definition which leads me to believe you don't have an actual argument.
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