Good morning! How are all you LRC stable geniuses doing this fine am?
Good morning! How are all you LRC stable geniuses doing this fine am?
Flagpole wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Sure. That is what they should be doing. Unfortunately our government avoids dealing with real problems and continues this charade. If we were a reasonable people we would address the endless wars, military spending, balance the budget, cut wastefull agency spending, and slash the unnatural growth of government entitlements. But we won’t, until we cascade to the end point of reason.
Idealism is great and all, but when we have a lying criminal President who is beholden to the Russian President, all that takes a back seat.
Trump is to blame for the shutdown of course, but McConnell could begin the process of ending it by calling a vote.
We won't begin to get back to normal until Trump is out of office.
Idealism? That is what the govenment should be more concerned with. Russia, jeez you are blind. Whatever makes you tick I suppose.
foo wrote:
There is no chess game being played here. He’s in a no-win situation. He’s pushing for something the American public don’t want. And his only leverage is shutting down the government which the American public don’t want. If he caves, his hard core supporters will abandon him. His only way out is to create an even bigger disruption, which is his normal modus operandi. I don’t think that’s going to work this time. Please enumerate his options.
Keep in mind is that a large part of Trump's base fundamentally hates the federal government and are ok with letting it burn down. Trump has lost the middle and is not likely to reclaim it, but he can maintain much of his base for a long time as long as they perceive everyone suffers as well. Pelosi ultimately can't go down with the ship.
While Trump is in a no-win situation he can still ensure no one else wins.
The truth hurts wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Of course you should be in charge and make the decision for the rest of us stupid folks.
I never said that, did I ?
You see oppression where there is none because you project your own desire for authoritarianism onto others.
Authoritarianism risises from a government that functions extra-legallly, where institutions usurp the law. Like the Obama Justice Department, sound familiar?
Thisthreadisridiculous wrote:
This shutdown is everyone’s fault.
No, it truly isn't. Trump created it and has maintained it. When the GOP was still in control of both houses of Congress, a bipartisan bill that would have avoided a shutdown was sent to Trump, who had indicated that he'd sign it. Then he didn't.
Trump, live on national television, said that he would welcome a shutdown, that it would be on him, and that he would not blame the Dems. It's his shutdown, period.
I even cut McConnell more slack than most people seem willing to. Of course he's being disingenuous when he says there are other, more pressing things to attend to, but I don't think it's terribly unreasonable for him to avoid passing bills that he knows DJT won't sign.
This shutdown is NOT "everyone's fault." It's Trump's.
Democrats need to figure out what direction they want to take their party. They now have reps who are willing to give President Trump the money while some want open borders.
Okay, not being argumentative on this one, but I'm genuinely curious: Which Dems are on record as favoring open borders? I've heard this from multiple sources, but so far haven't been able to find a single Dem who says s/he wants open borders--and I've been looking! Who is saying this?
Day THIRTY-FOUR of the DONALD TRUMP SHUTDOWN . . . hang in there, everybody!
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/24/18178690/government-shutdown-mitch-mconnell-trump
The shutdown really shows how bloated and inefficient the Federal Government is.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
The shutdown really shows how bloated and inefficient the Federal Government is.
I don't disagree, but can you give specifics?
Thisthreadisridiculous wrote:
This shutdown is everyone’s fault. Democrats need to figure out what direction they want to take their party. They now have reps who are willing to give President Trump the money while some want open borders. The press can spin this however they want but Republicans are at least for the most part on the same page with the direction of their party. They also support Trump to the range of 90%.
That first statement is false.
The shutdown is 100% the fault of Trump. Republicans and Democrats in Congress already agreed to fund the government without a wall.
You do not use continuing operations and worker's pay as a hostage to change legislation.
The House Democrats signed off on a continuing resolution in December initiated by Speaker Ryan.
The Senate agreed in a bipartisan way to send that resolution to Trump.
Trump refused to sign the package. That shut the government down.
The Democrats are simply asking Trump to open the government and then negotiate in good faith for any new legislation.
If Congress and the president can't agree on new legislation, then you don't get new legislation. That 's how it works.
Fat hurts wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
The shutdown really shows how bloated and inefficient the Federal Government is.
I don't disagree, but can you give specifics?
Only 25% of the government is shutdown. Most of the big ticket items are doing just fine.
Also the big hurt doesn’t come until March when food stamps, sec 8, and WIC run dry.
This is why shutdowns are all theatrics, because the hard effects don’t come for weeks or months after. Missing paychecks hurt, but a smart government employee has a backup plan. This time is different though because we have a president who doesn’t understand the game.
I can’t remember any shutdown over such a singular issue that the public doesn’t support.
Alan
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
The shutdown really shows how bloated and inefficient the Federal Government is.
Like having air traffic controllers and the Coast Guard.
Who needs them, anyway?
Monkeys typing wrote:
Keep in mind is that a large part of Trump's base fundamentally hates the federal government and are ok with letting it burn down. Trump has lost the middle and is not likely to reclaim it, but he can maintain much of his base for a long time as long as they perceive everyone suffers as well. Pelosi ultimately can't go down with the ship.
While Trump is in a no-win situation he can still ensure no one else wins.
A lot his base won't realize what benefits they have until it hits them and then they will only want those parts and not care what hurts others.
Like tax refunds. The IRS is not supposed to issue tax refunds during a shutdown. But they did a work around and forced them to work without pay to process these.
His base doesn't care about them getting paid but they would go nuts if they didn't get their tax refunds.
Or what if the airports shutdown because federal employees refused to work without pay?
I think Trump knows he's going down and he wants to take everyone down with him.
If he were drowning, he would grab as many people as he could to die with him.
He's making public accusations about Cohen's father-in-law to scare Cohen form publicly testifying about Trump. And it worked. That is obvious obstruction.
Rudy G is saying every scenario about Trump's business ties to Russia could be true but legal. What's up with that?
Trump is now actively trying to destroy the country if he has to go down.
Indi Voter wrote:
I just wish we had adults in Congress and the WH.
People like Trump, Pelosi, and Schumer epitomize what is wrong with American politics.
Just grow up and quit acting like spoiled little kids.
Flagpole, Rigged, agip, and your buddies, you guys just keep “cheering” for your sides while the country goes to hell. You also are part of the problem. Try being part of the solution for once.
Bill
This is complete crap. No one is cheering - just hoping for the end of a nightmare.
We have Trump in office because a large majority of the 60 million people who voted for him did it completely out of spite.
The country has many problems right now but the biggest is an incompetent and criminal POTUS who is being propped up by an equally criminal, spineless and incompetent GOP.
FTR wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Such BS. I am not cheering for my "side".
Your record states otherwise.
INCORRECT! I have consistently ripped on Democrats when they deserve it and praised Republicans when they deserve it...as I spelled out in the post you conveniently removed that part from.
All Americans should be against Trump at this point. He's a serial liar and a criminal. Shame on you for defending him.
Fat hurts wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
The shutdown really shows how bloated and inefficient the Federal Government is.
I don't disagree, but can you give specifics?
You couldn't let a sleeping dog lie? :)
Taken by itself, it's an agreeable comment. Asking for more will make it not so.
Runningart2004 wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I don't disagree, but can you give specifics?
Only 25% of the government is shutdown. Most of the big ticket items are doing just fine.
Also the big hurt doesn’t come until March when food stamps, sec 8, and WIC run dry.
This is why shutdowns are all theatrics, because the hard effects don’t come for weeks or months after. Missing paychecks hurt, but a smart government employee has a backup plan. This time is different though because we have a president who doesn’t understand the game.
I can’t remember any shutdown over such a singular issue that the public doesn’t support.
Alan
Tell that to the air traffic controllers...20% of whom are currently eligible for retirement. Due to calls off, they are currently staffed at about 54%, and many are working the max right now of 10 hours a day, 6 days a week...without pay.
Tell that to families who are living paycheck to paycheck. MOST Americans operate that way.
Tell that to non-federal workers who work in service in heavy federal worker areas where their income is greatly reduced because those federal workers aren't getting paid.
It's already a big hurt. It's just that it will get worse.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Idealism is great and all, but when we have a lying criminal President who is beholden to the Russian President, all that takes a back seat.
Trump is to blame for the shutdown of course, but McConnell could begin the process of ending it by calling a vote.
We won't begin to get back to normal until Trump is out of office.
Idealism? That is what the govenment should be more concerned with. Russia, jeez you are blind. Whatever makes you tick I suppose.
Dude, blind is anyone who believes Trump's relationship with Russia is not a bad thing. Even IF Trump were an innocent choirboy, he has shown that basically he hires criminals to staff his campaign and the White House. That should be concerning in and of itself. BUT, when you add the fact that he's a serial liar and a criminal on top of that and also understand that he cozies up to dictators around the world, that's even more concerning.
Job #1 has to be to remove him from office. Then we can focus on all the things we would like Government to be.
Your defense of Trump is shameful.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
The truth hurts wrote:
I never said that, did I ?
You see oppression where there is none because you project your own desire for authoritarianism onto others.
Authoritarianism risises from a government that functions extra-legallly, where institutions usurp the law. Like the Obama Justice Department, sound familiar?
Look! A squirrel!
You might be able to fool yourself, seeking refuge in the tried and tested Trumpian tactics of lying, deflecting and making sh*t up about "the enemy" but everyone else sees right through you.
Every trumper is a criminal. Everyone near DJT is a criminal. that's the unavoidable conclusion here.
now jared's suspicious transactions at Deutsche Bank will be turned over to Mueller.
And with that, the special counsel has probably another several months of work.
Flagpole wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Idealism? That is what the govenment should be more concerned with. Russia, jeez you are blind. Whatever makes you tick I suppose.
Dude, blind is anyone who believes Trump's relationship with Russia is not a bad thing. Even IF Trump were an innocent choirboy, he has shown that basically he hires criminals to staff his campaign and the White House. That should be concerning in and of itself. BUT, when you add the fact that he's a serial liar and a criminal on top of that and also understand that he cozies up to dictators around the world, that's even more concerning.
Job #1 has to be to remove him from office. Then we can focus on all the things we would like Government to be.
Your defense of Trump is shameful.
A year from now we will be in the same place, except you will increasingly look delusional.