50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

over 50 wrote:

I had that talk with self and got it together for last two miles, got back to 7:30 pushing hard and finished sub 3:19.

My best marathon time in 20 years.

Great feeling when you can push through those lulls, especially in a marathon. My sense from experienced marathoners is that generally, once you've lost it, it's very hard to recover. Congrats on a last score (as in four score)PR.

Thanks for the vivid race recap. Must have been a good heart to heart talk, it's not often one can regain composure late in a marathon.

Congrats on the time; NYCM is not an easy course.

What G. Mutai, and the leaders, did is other worldly. Taking 2 minutes off a course record than weathered many years and talented competitors blows my mind.

Wellesley girls,ahhh...it's been 30+ years since I've run at Boston. Yet those shrill young voices echo in my head when I think back.

I'm 58 and just ran 3:01:20 at JoongAng in Seoul- good enough for 75th in the 50-59 group! 65 50 plus guys under 3! Are you kidding? And I thought the course was long since my GPS clicked over 26.2 at 2 hr 59 and I was still outside the stadium. http://www.daveelger.net/2011/11/65-men-age-50-59-sub-3-hours-in-korea.html

Nice enough run champ.

Think there's a chance of a results snafu.?? 65 guys under 3? That's sounds unprecedented.

Without googling it ,how big a field does this race host?

Been awhile Dave... hope all's well with you.

Dairyland is still rife with aroma, cheese, and a strip of snow up the mid section of the state. Got my skiis out for an hour on the lawn and fields today.

Nope I figured out how to look it up on the website to confirm what my Korean friend told me. 137 in the 40-49 also under 3 so not many more than 50 that beat me were under 40. Only 4 in the 60 group though.

I concur with Bushman, that's a really impressive statistic (and nice run by you too, Dave). Also, congrats on membership in that exclusive 5-decade sub-3 club (from last spring)....that's quite a life's achievement.

Back to the JoongAng Marathon, there must be some reason for the high number of serious master's competitors in Korea (I'm assuming most those times were by Korean nationals.) Any insight?

Any insight?x2. Assuming these stats are accurate, what could contribute to such an excellent Master's field.

Culture? Genetics? Diet? Sheer effort? Or a sublime combination of all of the above.

Whatever light you can shed on this phenomenal level of performance is likely to be of interest to the denizens of this thread.

Must be a cultural thing. I couldn't find detail results for the race above, but here's a link to another Korean marathon (much of it's in Korean, but it's pretty easy to guess the stuff that matters), with what appears to be a similar statistical distribution.

http://marathon.chosun.com/record/index02.php?searchby=age

The plurality of sub-3 coming from the ranks of the 40-49 (171 total) and 50-59 (53 total). No other age groups have close to these numbers.

Kip Litton is the coach for the Korean Master's team.

Go to the bottom and you will see 2011, click on both dots on the left hand side, and 50 in the bottom field.

No idea on training but I have noticed they all use very light-weight racing flats- something I would normally wear in a 5K. They are very lean- Korean diet is heavy on rice, meat or fish, and vegetables (kimchi of course). I don't think they eat much of the typical American junk. I will try to find out more-.

or

are two POCs for race info. in Korea.

This discussion about Korean marathones is quite intriguing. At the risk of stereotyping, I once was treated by an ortho who believed that taller distance runners were at a disadvantage. His idea had something to do with differences in muscle mass. I never bought it, but thought I'd throw it out there as some possible fodder for the discussion.

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Week 25

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Greetings all. I'm getting the ball rolling early, as I'll be on the road today for a meeting. Probably won't get back in time for a run today....which maybe isn't a bad thing.

For the week, 55 miles on 7 days: Daily totals were S:10,M:9,T:8,W:8,R:8,F:6,S:6. For Wednesday's workout, I did 5x800 again, same rests, all but the second (2:46) were 2:39-2:40. Friday, I did a progression run, with the penultimate mile in 5:50. I didn't plan on racing Saturday, but there was an itching to go out to the State HS XC meet, which had a little 5k open XC race afterwards (little being the operative word here); Friday night I decided to run. I was initially disappointed with my 19:34 showing, but when I saw that all the kids were running about 40-50s off their normal XC times that made me feel a little better. It was also pretty much just a solo tempo effort in heavy wind on uneven ground, there was no crowd (they'd all left to watch the HS awards) and none of the handful of runners were within about 4 minutes of me...it was just me and the guy in the golf cart.

By this point, the knee is feeling great for running. There are certain motions that do hurt; not sure if I'll ever be able to do a deep knee bend without pain anymore. Aside from inevitable slowing and weakening, have any of you also noticed any marked changes in fundamental aspects of your running?

OK. Hope everyone is training and racing well. I guess we start getting Turkey Trots about now and December brings a lot of destination marathoning, and then there is Club XC (to which I know a few of you are going)...anyone got plans?

My running week that was:

M, 32min easy on grass in Halifax.

T, 50min easy on grass in Halifax. An excellent run.

W, 16min jog + 4 strides + 4x800m + 10min jog in Halifax. 2:46-45-44-38 felt very smooth and controlled, mostly with significant negative split second halfs.

T, 32min easy on grass in Halifax.

F, 50min easy on grass near Toronto.

S, 15min jog + 4 strides + 2k surge + 5min jog near Toronto. I was going to surge 4k, and 3:44 first k felt like a jog. 3:37 second km was also shockingly easy. But I think I had 7-days-in-a-row-blahs, and I just stopped at 2k, untired. I think I'm in decent shape, but I need....

S, ....no running.

18 weeks until Bazan Bay 5k, goal sub 17:23.

My running week that was:

M, 32min easy on grass in Halifax.

T, 50min easy on grass in Halifax. An excellent run.

W, 16min jog + 4 strides + 4x800m + 10min jog in Halifax. 2:46-45-44-38 felt very smooth and controlled, mostly with significant negative split second halfs.

T, 32min easy on grass in Halifax.

F, 50min easy on grass near Toronto.

S, 15min jog + 4 strides + 2k surge + 5min jog near Toronto. I was going to surge 4k, and 3:44 first k felt like a jog. 3:37 second km was also shockingly easy. But I think I had 7-days-in-a-row-blahs, and I just stopped at 2k, untired. I think I'm in decent shape, but I need....

S, ....no running.

18 weeks until Bazan Bay 5k, goal sub 17:23.

Keef wrote:

Why do you consider the hilly run on sat to be a mistake?

It was scheduled to be an easy day, but a seriously hilly course cannot be considered "easy" imho. The next day was scheduled to be a hard day, and it was compromised.

All things considered, I had a very good week. This weekend I finished 2nd in my age group at our XC championships race and 2nd for the series of races. I nursed my retrocalcaneal bursitis through a taper week and it felt fine for the race, and I felt like I got the best effort I could have in the race for my current reduced mileage level of fitness. I beat a few people who had been beating me in earlier season races and was only 20 seconds slower than last year when I was running more mileage and the course last year was a lot drier and faster. Now for a week or two of cross training to let the injury settle down and heal properly and then back to building the mileage for some Spring racing.

lucKY2B - good to hear your knee is responding well to 50+ mile weeks

Me for the week: 0 miles - recovery post NYC marathon, want my sore right knee to settle a bit more. 45 minute road biking Thursday, 3 hrs Saturday 4 hrs Sunday collecting and processing firewood (great substitute for boring strength work).

Fundamental changes to training (other than slowing & weakening):

Recovery. It is now a word in my vocabulary and I focus on it a lot. My recent NYCM build up let me know I really need 72 hours between hard workouts, long term. I can do three a week in a particular week, however, I cannot sustain that week after week without setbacks.

Running Form. Focus on fixing running form as part of injury prevention has been more critical in my recent years.

Cross training. Managing a chronic rt achilles issue and other occasional MovingKnotOfPain issues limit my peak mileage to around 55 mpw; so I must add other work (mostly biking) to substitute.

I am about to add (again) more dedicated strength training to my routine.

AK-53, you are my cross training hero on this site. You mix running up well with fun, seasonal stuff, and necessary (less fun to me) gym stuff.

[quote]AK-53 wrote:

Had a good week, albeit with a screwed up season's ski race debut. Ran 3 times (7.5, 4, 6) and skied 6 days (total of 106 km) and did 2 weight sessions.

Last week, close to 3 hr. of running. 5x running.

Today, short 23 min. burn, last 1/2 mile solid pace.