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uropean wrote:
010326 wrote:
where has socialism worked?
and what is your definition of socialism?
Norway? France? Spain? Finland? to name a few...
good good man those are all capitalist nations.
you are using some kind of definition of socialism that means 'safety net'
which means every nation is socialist.
Get a grip.
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Mailbox wrote:
The Imperative Voice Real11 wrote:
bullsh*t. it's one of those things like traffic laws where it's like, "i don't have to obey that, really."
until things turn chaotic or someone tags you in a wreck. then you want the rules back.
we have the rules because we had 2 highly deadly world wars within 30 years.
You do have to obey traffic laws, or else the police will punish you. There's no "international police" enforcing your so called "international law," never has been never will be. It's literally fake.
What would you say to the innocent Venezuelans who had family members and friends murdered yesterday? Is their death fake? The US is 4.5% of the world's population so this strategy of disregarding international laws we wrote and signed on to will have massive blowback.
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Precious Roy wrote:
exrunnerboy wrote:
Venezuelans rejoice....Democrats pout...
This is the real story (the Venezuelan expat community, not Trump owning the libs by kidnapping Maduro). Trump's war against Venezuela has nothing to do with drugs or oil. It is simply a matter of a handful of very wealthy Venezuelans who fled Venezuela when Chavez took power were able to get to Trump through their relationship with Rubio. Their story to Trump is that they were once among the wealthy elite in Venezuela, owning land, various industries, etc. until Chavez came to power and nationalized their companies and took their land. That is the socialist nightmare that every billionaire fears is the natural consequence of even the slightest egalitarian social democratic policy. Trump then agreed to take out Maduro in order to install a right wing government that will basically be a Pinochet 2.0. Violently repress any sort of leftist opposition and sell (or give back) all state owned industries to the expat communities living in south Florida. It is basically make the Venezuelan oligarchs of the 70s and 80s Great Again (MVO7080GA?).
But the big problem is the same as the big problem of the Iraq war, but in a different form. Maria Machado and Edmundo Gonzalez are a bit like the Venezuelan Ahmed Chalabi (for you youngins, he was who the Bush administration presumed would be treated by Iraqis as a hero and quickly become a unifying leader after the fall of Sadam). The opposition in Venezuela is not united behind these figures and for all the harm caused by Chavez and Maduro, there are still very large numbers of very poor Venezuelans who support the Bolivarian revolution and do not want to see a return to the days when all the wealth in Venezuela pooled into the hands of a few connected oligarchs in Caracas. In short, a transition to a government that can implement Pinochet/Chicago Boys style reforms without causing a civil war is a task that Machado's movement is not up to.
The only way to fully see through what the Venezuelan expats want is for a full scale US invasion and occupation on par with the Iraq War. It would probably be a far easier invasion as the Venezuelan armed forces are a joke and would quickly evaporate once US cruise missiles start taking out every military installation in the country. But the next step, occupation and transition to civilian rule, would be hell. There would definitely be a guerilla revolt in the rural areas that would basically be Vietnam-esque jungle combat with heavy casualties for both sides. Worse still, Venezuela imports 80% of its food because of the Bolivarian revolution's mismanagement of the agriculture sector and punishing sanctions. That would mean a very real chance for famine especially in the rural communities. And this could happen even if Trump does nothing further at this point or if a quick transition to a right wing government took place without a shot being fired.
And Trump is just getting started with Venezuela. Cuba is next. Both countries are in such desperate straits economically that the destruction of their governments without immediate Marshal Plan style aid flowing into the country will cause famine, civil war and mass exodus of people who will all try to get to the US.
Cuba is in dire straights. Anti-US policies and the loss of funds from its benefactors in Russia as they deal with their own war debts in Ukraine are the two main culprits. They made their bed with the Russians and flipped a middle finger at America decades ago. It hasn’t really worked out well for the people of Cuba.
The timing of the action in Venezuela is due to a recent 15 year agreement between Russia and PDSVA to develop oil resources. If we can displace Russia from Venezuela it will severely weaken their influence in the Americas.
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mad maxx wrote:
Mailbox wrote:
You do have to obey traffic laws, or else the police will punish you. There's no "international police" enforcing your so called "international law," never has been never will be. It's literally fake.
What would you say to the innocent Venezuelans who had family members and friends murdered yesterday? Is their death fake? The US is 4.5% of the world's population so this strategy of disregarding international laws we wrote and signed on to will have massive blowback.
Collateral damage was minimal considering they removed the president of a country and his wife. It was pretty surgical. 32 Cuban soldiers were killed. Most of the other 50ish that died were likely Venezuelan soldiers (who knows, maybe there were some Russian soldiers in the mix).
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joedlrt wrote:
mad maxx wrote:
What would you say to the innocent Venezuelans who had family members and friends murdered yesterday? Is their death fake? The US is 4.5% of the world's population so this strategy of disregarding international laws we wrote and signed on to will have massive blowback.
Collateral damage was minimal considering they removed the president of a country and his wife. It was pretty surgical. 32 Cuban soldiers were killed. Most of the other 50ish that died were likely Venezuelan soldiers (who knows, maybe there were some Russian soldiers in the mix).
Look how you just brush off 100 innocent lives you bloodthirsty psycho.
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Johnson Brothers- WHAT is the point of such a thread on a RUNNING Site !!
Please stop with the political crap here and let it be discussed elsewhere. I discussed this issue with you last Summer in Eugene and at least then you seemed to get it ...........???
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jtkirchnerFMTC wrote:
Johnson Brothers- WHAT is the point of such a thread on a RUNNING Site !!
Please stop with the political crap here and let it be discussed elsewhere. I discussed this issue with you last Summer in Eugene and at least then you seemed to get it ...........???
The point is clicks and you just obliged.
Sucker.
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Trump! wrote:
FinnJ92 wrote:
What are you talking about. US have 38 trillions in debt. Meanwhile Norway with it's 5 million people have a pension fund of 2 trillions in plus. And in Norway education and healthcare is free, people are happier than in the US. Every country needs a combination of socialism and capitalism.
Capitalism works when there is competition. How much competition is there when a few wealthy individuals are getting richer every day? That is just like a large government except that the money doesn't trickle down to hard-working people- so maybe comparable to a corrupt government
If the US was geographically much smaller and had the same relative amount of oil, it would resemble Norway with respect to wealth.
Perhaps. It would depend on who was in charge. A right-winged party in Norway wanted to sell the rights to look for oil to private companies. If that has happened Norway would have been much poorer. Look at how Australia have wasted their natural resources. Sometimes private is good and other times not.
As I said Norways national wealth fund is worth 2 trillion dollars. US got 38 trillions in dept. How would the economy be if they had a similar fund?
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted. Reason provided: Spelling00 -
Oldrunningguy wrote:
via x
Imagine if another country's military entered the United States, kidnapped our President, and left us without our elected leader.
Generations of Americans would view the entire country as terrorists. And that's how many parts of the world will view the U.S. this morning.You are right.
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pupil3142 wrote:
Im really struggling to find justification for this. Venezuelan regime bad, yes. Sanctions and embargoes ok. Seizing tankers a bit iffy but if sanctions being ignored then......
But open acts of war = bad.
Wtf. Palestine is an open threat to israel. Venezuela is not a threat to us.
Their drugs have killed thousands. They support terrorist who are a threat to us. wtf?
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mad maxx wrote:
Mailbox wrote:
You do have to obey traffic laws, or else the police will punish you. There's no "international police" enforcing your so called "international law," never has been never will be. It's literally fake.
What would you say to the innocent Venezuelans who had family members and friends murdered yesterday? Is their death fake? The US is 4.5% of the world's population so this strategy of disregarding international laws we wrote and signed on to will have massive blowback.
They’re celebrating like mad crazy looks like lmao.
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whawha wrote:
mad maxx wrote:
What would you say to the innocent Venezuelans who had family members and friends murdered yesterday? Is their death fake? The US is 4.5% of the world's population so this strategy of disregarding international laws we wrote and signed on to will have massive blowback.
They’re celebrating like mad crazy looks like lmao.
You saw one video and now determine a country of 30 million are "celebrating like mad crazy". The media told us the Iraqis were celebrating to but surely this time is different.
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mad maxx wrote:
joedlrt wrote:
Collateral damage was minimal considering they removed the president of a country and his wife. It was pretty surgical. 32 Cuban soldiers were killed. Most of the other 50ish that died were likely Venezuelan soldiers (who knows, maybe there were some Russian soldiers in the mix).
Look how you just brush off 100 innocent lives you bloodthirsty psycho.
How do you know the deceased were “innocent”? Cuban mercenaries and soldiers who have been propping up an illegitimate regime by any means necessary are “innocent” in your opinion? Soldiers understand the risks.
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joedlrt wrote:
mad maxx wrote:
Look how you just brush off 100 innocent lives you bloodthirsty psycho.
How do you know the deceased were “innocent”? Cuban mercenaries and soldiers who have been propping up an illegitimate regime by any means necessary are “innocent” in your opinion? Soldiers understand the risks.
We are not at war with Venezuela and Venezuela was not attacking us. They deserve to die because the west deemed the Maduro government "illegitimate"? Stop playing dumb we murdered people for oil and you like it you vile scum.
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Oldrunningguy wrote:
via x
Imagine if another country's military entered the United States, kidnapped our President, and left us without our elected leader.
Generations of Americans would view the entire country as terrorists. And that's how many parts of the world will view the U.S. this morning.Imagine you live in a country where you only know dictatorship and that dictator mows down peaceful protestors with bullets and cars. Wouldn't you be happy that dictator is gone? The people of Venezuela are in the streets parading and crying happy tears. You guys HAVE to be the most retarded people on the planet. Everytime Trump does something you guys scream ww3 and then it goes away and guys never mention it ever again. every. single. time.
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lolol47 wrote:
Oldrunningguy wrote:
via x
Imagine if another country's military entered the United States, kidnapped our President, and left us without our elected leader.
Generations of Americans would view the entire country as terrorists. And that's how many parts of the world will view the U.S. this morning.Imagine you live in a country where you only know dictatorship and that dictator mows down peaceful protestors with bullets and cars. Wouldn't you be happy that dictator is gone? The people of Venezuela are in the streets parading and crying happy tears. You guys HAVE to be the most retarded people on the planet. Everytime Trump does something you guys scream ww3 and then it goes away and guys never mention it ever again. every. single. time.
Please stop twisting yourself in knots justifying what Trump did as just action.
Trump went off script immediately and told us 16 times he did it for oil. Thats all.
You need to defend that as the reason.
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soldiers who have been propping up an illegitimate regime by any means necessary are “innocent” in your opinion? Soldiers understand the risks.
Yes, I bet all US servicemen understand the risk of serving under Fehrer Trump.
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just to underline the silly inconsistency of our current policies, but i thought we were deporting venezuelan criminals back to their home country.
everything is a cute soundbite, but if you pay attention, it doesn't cohere with the other parts or make sense as a whole.
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mad maxx wrote:
joedlrt wrote:
Collateral damage was minimal considering they removed the president of a country and his wife. It was pretty surgical. 32 Cuban soldiers were killed. Most of the other 50ish that died were likely Venezuelan soldiers (who knows, maybe there were some Russian soldiers in the mix).
Look how you just brush off 100 innocent lives you bloodthirsty psycho.
They're not innocent...They're soldiers propping up an evil dictator...Where are your morals?
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