Comeback journey to sub 20 min 5 k at age 66....

Woldemar Gerschler was one of Germany’s most successful athletics
coaches prior to the Second World War. Born in Saxony in 1904, he
trained high-profile runners such as Katharina “Käthe” Krauss (100-meter
bronze medalist at the 1936 Olympic Games) and Rudolf Harbig (800-meter
world record holder from 1938). After the War, he first worked as a
football coach and led the coaching program of the German Athletics
Association, before he became the Director of the Sport Institute of the
University of Freiburg in 1949. He continued to be involved in
athletics was responsible for the German athletics team at the Olympic
Games in 1952, 1956, and 1960. In short, Gerschler had an impactful and
eventful life.
However, sport historians have largely neglected
Gerschler’s contributions to the development of athletics, and in part
have also ignored the controversial sides of his career. Complete
studies on Gerschler are not available, while partial analyses of his
life are scattered in numerous publications and online sources. Based on
archival sources collected from the archive of the University of
Freiburg, the German Federal State Archive, the State Archive in
Dresden, and newspaper archives, this study aims to fill this research
gap. In particular, it will focus on three defining aspects of
Gerschler’s biography. (1) It explores his contribution to athletics
training, and here especially the invention of the interval training
method and his outspoken support for winter training. (2) It considers
Gerschler’s political and nationalistic attitudes, which have been
controversial. Whilst he openly spoke out in favor of convicted Nazi
collaborators and was responsible for the German track-and-field squad
at four Olympic Games, he also coached international athletes such as
Gordon Pirie and Roger Moens, not showing strong nationalistic
tendencies. (3) It analyses Gerschler’s collaboration with German sport
medical doctor Herbert Reindell. The two men worked together at the
University of Freiburg, where they strongly supported the development of
scientific support for athletics training that Gerschler called for on a
national level, too. However, the pair was later suspected to conduct
research on performance-enhancing methods categorized as doping.

But he, whats in a name. I let you educate me, again, again and again.

just like you educated me on your email invention. I still remember that so clearly LOL

He's counting on it ;-)

If I remember it correct ( see, I can be little humble , lol 😉) Reindell and Gerschler experimented with around 4000 ( !) runners ( don't know their ages)and came to the same result of a sweet spot ....

In my longtime coaching of several hundreds of runners at all levels and ages I have experimented myself with testing runners with lower mhr than 200 to rest back to 60% of their mhr ( 60% because of 60% of 200 is 120 bpm) but without any signs it should be more effective. As an example I myself would have to rest back to 60 % of maybe 185 = 111 bpm and it's really too low heartrate for me and like equal to a full rest where I lose the purpose of the session . So, it really looks out to be the 120 bpm is a sweet spot suits everybody ! Of course it's up to everyone who want's to experiment on their own with this to find out what suits them best.

Ps! Right just now I got in a happy message from one of my coached Masters runners who today won his country's 50 + group Cup. He has been coached by me 2 months now and used the 120 bpm recovery even if his mhr is 187. 🇸🇪🧙‍♂️🇸🇪

Jan, where are you getting this 185-190 max heart rate number from? Just a guess?

At your age 170-175 would be more realistic.

That's a good thought of you. 👍 The treadmills I use seem to be almost perfect calibrated . Sometimes though it feels how fast the band goes at e.g 4:48 min/ km is so fast compared to when I as a young elite runner ran easy steady at 4 min/ km up to as long as 48 km at most and it felt so very easy back then.. 😃

Of course I clearly see I'm age 66 now ....😉🤣

It's of course a qualified guess aproximately out from I ran threshold intervals one day took me up to registrate 171 bpm even if relatively far from my highest pace . I think I will one day when springtime is back test out what my exact mhr is in special hillreps where one runs the reps to exhausted . A very tough test you only do once I say ... 😃🤣

See? You were wrong again. Just imagine what else you got wrong from reading about their work.

How are you recording heart rate? That max pulse seems too high, particularly for that pace (~7:40/mile), which is a long way from your sub-20min 5k goal (~6:22/mile). We're similar age and I do my treadmill interval work quite a bit faster than you (7:00/mile pace and faster), for longer (up to 5 minutes), with faster and shorter jog recovery (~8:30/mile pace for 1 minute), and at altitude (1680m), but with a much lower max heart rate (146bpm Polar chest strap). I don't think I'm near sub 20:00 5km. I'm also a former sub-14min 5km racer.

It's possible you might get under 20:00 5km by summer, I doubt by spring, but I could be wrong. As you get faster, avoiding injury will be key.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

... more precise = ph.. ull... of... sh*t

This discussion will never end and I believe and I say this sincerely as a friend of the protagonist coach JS - that unless he can get his weight under 80 kilos for one meter 1.88cm (sub 177 lbs for 6.2) then 20 minutes for five kilometers is a completely unrealistic goal. There are simply no 60+ runners weighing 180+ running sub 20.00. typically those wonder masters running 18.00-20.00 at 60+ are mostly all around 5.5-5.9, (1.65 -1.69) and 115-130 (52.0-60kg). Skinny humans, vast majority. A few outliers exist, but they're muscular, not fat. J.S. is carrying 30 bf.

Respectfully to JS because he's a great person, in his own maverick way.

For the record, JS weighs around 90 kg at this time (199). January 2026.

omg, ghost is saying Jan is talking nonsense? what next?

Jan, are you losing any weight since you ramped up the training in the past month? I agree with Ghost; you need to work towards 80 kilos.

I'm 6'3 and 75 kilos so even 80 sounds too high to me.

you're probably right, but it's maybe a not completely daunting task just to start.

There is substantial natural variation above and below the standard formula of 220 minus age. At 40 my max HR was 156, far below (220 - 40) = 180. I knew age-peers with max HR over 200. Nitpicking his claimed max HR is pointless. That said, his recovery target of 120 could reasonably be a different number for individuals with significantly higher or lower than average max HR. But I would suggest it’s a distinction without a difference in most cases.

But if we say it, the magic wizard will ignore it.

I had a max hr of 200 35 years ago too. It's a lot lower now and I was high ranked nationally at age 45. If you haven't already noticed, Jan is prone to flights of fancy.

I’ve called this 120 bpm multiple times as it’s the principle not the specific number, I make it say that statistically people with blue eyes run sub 20min 5km whereas brown, green, and grey eyes slower but it doesn’t mean anything to the individual.

sure getting to 120bpms is reasonable and maybe in the ballpark but it can not be an arbitrary number, the same with the z1 / z2 boundary is arbitrary too, you might as well say your recovery is as long as it takes fit your breathing goes to back to the days as rest or you able to sing a Taylor swift song without being out of breathe. Both methods above are far more accurate than 120bpm