He has a wr that Ingebrigtsen hasn't got near and will most likely never take. I'm sure Bekele thought having the wr was a significant part of his achievements and would respect the fact the Cheptegei has beaten it. Meanwhile - 20 places back on the all time list, in comes Ingebrigtsen.
Here we go with the numbers again, the world record that Cheptegei set in 2020 wasn't 3 years ago. Please seek professional help.
So what. It doesn't make Ingebrigtsen any faster than he was 3 years ago (which is yet again the setting of one of your arbitrary benchmarks), which is 20th on the all time list and the length of the straight behind Cheptegei's best. Nothing you guys argue here makes Ingebrigtsen any faster - and over the 5k he is pedestrian compared to Cheptegei's best. But keep those slow finals coming, Jakob.
Here we go with the numbers again, the world record that Cheptegei set in 2020 wasn't 3 years ago. Please seek professional help.
So what. It doesn't make Ingebrigtsen any faster than he was 3 years ago (which is yet again the setting of one of your arbitrary benchmarks), which is 20th on the all time list and the length of the straight behind Cheptegei's best. Nothing you guys argue here makes Ingebrigtsen any faster - and over the 5k he is pedestrian compared to Cheptegei's best. But keep those slow finals coming, Jakob.
I don't like this new rule which doesn't allow fast finals anymore.
Here we go with the numbers again, the world record that Cheptegei set in 2020 wasn't 3 years ago. Please seek professional help.
So what. It doesn't make Ingebrigtsen any faster than he was 3 years ago (which is yet again the setting of one of your arbitrary benchmarks), which is 20th on the all time list and the length of the straight behind Cheptegei's best. Nothing you guys argue here makes Ingebrigtsen any faster - and over the 5k he is pedestrian compared to Cheptegei's best. But keep those slow finals coming, Jakob.
If 20th is pedestrian then Farah must be wheelchair bound since he's 50th all time. Funny how that doesn't affect his claim to be the best but Jakob being 20th does.
So what. It doesn't make Ingebrigtsen any faster than he was 3 years ago (which is yet again the setting of one of your arbitrary benchmarks), which is 20th on the all time list and the length of the straight behind Cheptegei's best. Nothing you guys argue here makes Ingebrigtsen any faster - and over the 5k he is pedestrian compared to Cheptegei's best. But keep those slow finals coming, Jakob.
I don't like this new rule which doesn't allow fast finals anymore.
It's so Jakob has a chance of winning. Otherwise - no chance.
So what. It doesn't make Ingebrigtsen any faster than he was 3 years ago (which is yet again the setting of one of your arbitrary benchmarks), which is 20th on the all time list and the length of the straight behind Cheptegei's best. Nothing you guys argue here makes Ingebrigtsen any faster - and over the 5k he is pedestrian compared to Cheptegei's best. But keep those slow finals coming, Jakob.
If 20th is pedestrian then Farah must be wheelchair bound since he's 50th all time. Funny how that doesn't affect his claim to be the best but Jakob being 20th does.
So you probably don't rate Viren either, because his times must be about 500th or worse. But like Farah, he is a double double Olympic 5k/10k champion, which Ingebrigtsen will never match. By today's standards 20th or so says Ingebrigtsen is a long way behind the fastest in the 5k. Luckily for him, championship races have become a virtual jog. If it was run anywhere near as fast as the fastest times he wouldn't place. His times show that.
Luckily for him, championship races have become a virtual jog. If it was run anywhere near as fast as the fastest times he wouldn't place. His times show that.
Do his 3000m and 2 mile world records factor into your analysis?
Luckily for him, championship races have become a virtual jog. If it was run anywhere near as fast as the fastest times he wouldn't place. His times show that.
Do his 3000m and 2 mile world records factor into your analysis?
Only if you're discussing those distances. They are probably his best distances - from 2k to 2 mile. But they aren't the 5k - they are much shorter. If he had the same abilities over the 5k (or 10k) he would easily be the world record-holder over the longer distances. In fact he would be a specialist over those distances - as Bekele was. But he is not Bekele.
Do his 3000m and 2 mile world records factor into your analysis?
Only if you're discussing those distances. They are probably his best distances - from 2k to 2 mile. But they aren't the 5k - they are much shorter. If he had the same abilities over the 5k (or 10k) he would easily be the world record-holder over the longer distances. In fact he would be a specialist over those distances - as Bekele was. But he is not Bekele.
So Jakob having dominant world records for events that are 60-65% of the distance required isn't indicative of his WR potential in the 5000? By that logic, someone's 5000 PR should never be used for their 10000 potential as it's only 50% of the distance.
If 20th is pedestrian then Farah must be wheelchair bound since he's 50th all time. Funny how that doesn't affect his claim to be the best but Jakob being 20th does.
So you probably don't rate Viren either, because his times must be about 500th or worse. But like Farah, he is a double double Olympic 5k/10k champion, which Ingebrigtsen will never match. By today's standards 20th or so says Ingebrigtsen is a long way behind the fastest in the 5k. Luckily for him, championship races have become a virtual jog. If it was run anywhere near as fast as the fastest times he wouldn't place. His times show that.
Why do you ask me if I rate Viren when you're the one who's arguing that Jakob can't be the best because he's 20th all time and that only being the fastest matters in the 5k?
And like we've already established, Farah was 25th when he set his PR, and that neither didn't affect his ability to rack up a bunch of gold medals or affect your opinion on him being better than Jakob. And since you struggle with numbers you've tried to come up with all kinds of baffling justifications for it, like blaming super shoes, introduced in 2016, for why 24 people were faster than Farah in 2012.
Only if you're discussing those distances. They are probably his best distances - from 2k to 2 mile. But they aren't the 5k - they are much shorter. If he had the same abilities over the 5k (or 10k) he would easily be the world record-holder over the longer distances. In fact he would be a specialist over those distances - as Bekele was. But he is not Bekele.
So Jakob having dominant world records for events that are 60-65% of the distance required isn't indicative of his WR potential in the 5000? By that logic, someone's 5000 PR should never be used for their 10000 potential as it's only 50% of the distance.
Wrong analogy. Try estimating a runner's 1500 potential from their 800. David Rudisha wants a word. Succeeding at the shorter event doesn't mean an automatically equivalent degree of success in an event nearly twice as long.
Ingebrigtsen is an exceptional md runner; that does not mean he will be an exceptional distance runner (like a Bekele or even Cheptegei). So far the 5k appears to be at the very outer edge of his abilities. His best events are shorter.
So you probably don't rate Viren either, because his times must be about 500th or worse. But like Farah, he is a double double Olympic 5k/10k champion, which Ingebrigtsen will never match. By today's standards 20th or so says Ingebrigtsen is a long way behind the fastest in the 5k. Luckily for him, championship races have become a virtual jog. If it was run anywhere near as fast as the fastest times he wouldn't place. His times show that.
Why do you ask me if I rate Viren when you're the one who's arguing that Jakob can't be the best because he's 20th all time and that only being the fastest matters in the 5k?
And like we've already established, Farah was 25th when he set his PR, and that neither didn't affect his ability to rack up a bunch of gold medals or affect your opinion on him being better than Jakob. And since you struggle with numbers you've tried to come up with all kinds of baffling justifications for it, like blaming super shoes, introduced in 2016, for why 24 people were faster than Farah in 2012.
Farah's championship achievements - which were off the charts - mean his times matter less as a measure of his abilities. The same can't be said of Ingebrigtsen, until he is able to match Farah in that regard. He won't. He can't.
So Jakob having dominant world records for events that are 60-65% of the distance required isn't indicative of his WR potential in the 5000? By that logic, someone's 5000 PR should never be used for their 10000 potential as it's only 50% of the distance.
Wrong analogy. Try estimating a runner's 1500 potential from their 800. David Rudisha wants a word. Succeeding at the shorter event doesn't mean an automatically equivalent degree of success in an event nearly twice as long.
Ingebrigtsen is an exceptional md runner; that does not mean he will be an exceptional distance runner (like a Bekele or even Cheptegei). So far the 5k appears to be at the very outer edge of his abilities. His best events are shorter.
The 1500 and 800 are noticeably different physiologically, while the 3000 and 5000 are quite similar in physiological demands as shown by many studies. And when looking at the 3000m all time list you can see the very best 3000m runners are overwhelmingly also amongst the very best 5000m runners. There are exceptions, of course.
It doesn't guarantee anything, but 3000m ability and 5000m are certainly highly correlated.
The 1500 and 800 are noticeably different physiologically, while the 3000 and 5000 are quite similar in physiological demands as shown by many studies.
Why do you ask me if I rate Viren when you're the one who's arguing that Jakob can't be the best because he's 20th all time and that only being the fastest matters in the 5k?
And like we've already established, Farah was 25th when he set his PR, and that neither didn't affect his ability to rack up a bunch of gold medals or affect your opinion on him being better than Jakob. And since you struggle with numbers you've tried to come up with all kinds of baffling justifications for it, like blaming super shoes, introduced in 2016, for why 24 people were faster than Farah in 2012.
Farah's championship achievements - which were off the charts - mean his times matter less as a measure of his abilities. The same can't be said of Ingebrigtsen, until he is able to match Farah in that regard. He won't. He can't.
And why exactly would Jakob be unable to match Farah when Farah won his first global gold at age 28?
Farah's championship achievements - which were off the charts - mean his times matter less as a measure of his abilities. The same can't be said of Ingebrigtsen, until he is able to match Farah in that regard. He won't. He can't.
And why exactly would Jakob be unable to match Farah when Farah won his first global gold at age 28?
Ingebrigtsen has risen and peaked far earlier than Farah. He was a teen prodigy. There's no way he's going to be running faster at 28 than he is at 23. That is, unless he seriously ups his doping programme. That's quite apart from the fact that everyone else is still improving and some have closed the gap on him. But the main reason is that, unlike Farah, Ingebrigtsen isn't and never will be a 5k/10k runner. He is a md man.
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And why exactly would Jakob be unable to match Farah when Farah won his first global gold at age 28?
Ingebrigtsen has risen and peaked far earlier than Farah. He was a teen prodigy. There's no way he's going to be running faster at 28 than he is at 23. That is, unless he seriously ups his doping programme. That's quite apart from the fact that everyone else is still improving and some have closed the gap on him. But the main reason is that, unlike Farah, Ingebrigtsen isn't and never will be a 5k/10k runner. He is a md man.
So a teen prodigy who has already peaked is someone who gets better and faster every single year? That's not how it works, no.
Ingebrigtsen has risen and peaked far earlier than Farah. He was a teen prodigy. There's no way he's going to be running faster at 28 than he is at 23. That is, unless he seriously ups his doping programme. That's quite apart from the fact that everyone else is still improving and some have closed the gap on him. But the main reason is that, unlike Farah, Ingebrigtsen isn't and never will be a 5k/10k runner. He is a md man.
So a teen prodigy who has already peaked is someone who gets better and faster every single year? That's not how it works, no.
I didn't say he peaked in his teens. But he may get no faster than he has at 23. He may have peaked. I don't see there is any way he will be faster in 5 years time (unless he seriously ups his doping programme). Farah was clearly a late developer. Their careers aren't comparable - and that includes Farah's superior results.
So a teen prodigy who has already peaked is someone who gets better and faster every single year? That's not how it works, no.
I didn't say he peaked in his teens. But he may get no faster than he has at 23. He may have peaked. I don't see there is any way he will be faster in 5 years time (unless he seriously ups his doping programme). Farah was clearly a late developer. Their careers aren't comparable - and that includes Farah's superior results.
Farah's superior results?
Ingebrigtsen is much faster than Farah, has a much better win/loss record. Has 10+ years to top Farah's global medal count.