I just heard about how Alistair got booted from Mammoth back in the day. He is now in a position to guide young athletes with zero ethics or morality of his own.
What was he booted for? It’s alarming that both her and Rose Harvey ran in unhealthy states.
This is horrible and about as immoral as possible. Alistair was living with his fiancé in her place. She left in the summer to race in Europe. While she was gone Alistair moved another teammate (Amy) into the house (that his fiancé owned). Just before she returned from Europe his fling (Amy) moved out of the house. Alistair and the fling (Amy) denied that anything was going on. Everyone knew better and the Coach sent Alistair packing. Amy denied everything but shortly left the group and moved in with Alistair. Stand up people huh.
Yes I remember this being gossiped about on this site way back when that he had cheated on his girlfriend with another teammate and it got him removed from mammoth track club. Seems to have all worked out in the long run for both parties. Also whoever pointed out that it was Craig mottram who spoke on coffee club podcast is correct!
Fiona, because I'm now certain that you or people close to you are reading this thread: please consider that the best thing you could do right now might be to fire absolutely everyone in your orbit and start from scratch. From where I'm sitting you appear to be absolutely surrounded by incompetence-- this press release (that makes you look even worse than if you had just stayed quiet) being the latest example.
Clean house from the top down, build a professional team around you, get healthy, and I suspect most of us will be rooting for you in 2028.
Fiona, because I'm now certain that you or people close to you are reading this thread: please consider that the best thing you could do right now might be to fire absolutely everyone in your orbit and start from scratch. From where I'm sitting you appear to be absolutely surrounded by incompetence-- this press release (that makes you look even worse than if you had just stayed quiet) being the latest example.
Clean house from the top down, build a professional team around you, get healthy, and I suspect most of us will be rooting for you in 2028.
I have been incredibly critical of Fiona and how she handled this. I do however agree with you. I could become a fan again if she takes your advice. Get as far away as possible and become something special. Expecting change from these morally bankrupt coaches will not end well for you.
Have you guys ever limped around the week before your big race (including a Marathon) and pulled it off anyway on that day? I have. I was even limping around one morning with a calf strain the day of and nearly ran my pr. Another time I placed better than I could have expected with a really bad case of the peroneal tendonitis.
She earned her spot. It was hers to burn and nobody else's.
This wasn't a "maybe this will get stretched out after a few miles" deal or even a situation where it comes down to pain tolerance, she was physically unable to hold a normal running stride and was shuffling along at sub-recovery run pace.
I would hope that if you ever go out for a shakeout the day before and realize that you can only limp along at recovery run pace thanks to shooting pain in your hip, you'd shut it down
I can think of several times when I was a mess before a race and ran anyway. I am not exaggerating that. One time in particular my Doctor told me not to run. Out of the thirty Marathons I completed, at least five of them I would have not started if I took your advice.
And none of them or even collectively can be compared to an Olympic Marathon in terms of importance.
I know my opinion here on this is not popular but she earned her place and the decision to give it a shot that day. Nobody else deserved to take that from her. It’s as simple as that.
For all of us runners, perhaps we need to step forward and protect the athletes. If O'keeffe was forced to start the race and hobble whatever distance she needed to (good grief, look at the video!), due to some contractual or bonus agreement, then we all need to come forward and protect the athlete. This is bogus BS abuse of an athlete and the agent, coach and or shoe company need to be exposed for the abuse. LRC could be an agent of change by getting to the bottom of this.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
This wasn't a "maybe this will get stretched out after a few miles" deal or even a situation where it comes down to pain tolerance, she was physically unable to hold a normal running stride and was shuffling along at sub-recovery run pace.
I would hope that if you ever go out for a shakeout the day before and realize that you can only limp along at recovery run pace thanks to shooting pain in your hip, you'd shut it down
I can think of several times when I was a mess before a race and ran anyway. I am not exaggerating that. One time in particular my Doctor told me not to run. Out of the thirty Marathons I completed, at least five of them I would have not started if I took your advice.
And none of them or even collectively can be compared to an Olympic Marathon in terms of importance.
I know my opinion here on this is not popular but she earned her place and the decision to give it a shot that day. Nobody else deserved to take that from her. It’s as simple as that.
But you realize the cognitive dissonance here, right? You have run 5 marathons injured, inadvisably, but you admit none of them were on the scale of the Olympic Marathon in terms of importance, or (I would argue) level of competition. Yeah, we know. You're a hobby jogger paying $90 to do the Furniture Discounters May Pole Marathon. If you show up injured and limp along for 6 hours, or drop out, it's your own investment, and no one but your parents or your kids are disappointed. The Olympic Marathon is the highest level of competition, on a global stage, where your country has flown you, given you gear, paid your accommodations, etc. It's a terrible comparison.
I can think of several times when I was a mess before a race and ran anyway. I am not exaggerating that. One time in particular my Doctor told me not to run. Out of the thirty Marathons I completed, at least five of them I would have not started if I took your advice.
And none of them or even collectively can be compared to an Olympic Marathon in terms of importance.
I know my opinion here on this is not popular but she earned her place and the decision to give it a shot that day. Nobody else deserved to take that from her. It’s as simple as that.
But you realize the cognitive dissonance here, right? You have run 5 marathons injured, inadvisably, but you admit none of them were on the scale of the Olympic Marathon in terms of importance, or (I would argue) level of competition. Yeah, we know. You're a hobby jogger paying $90 to do the Furniture Discounters May Pole Marathon. If you show up injured and limp along for 6 hours, or drop out, it's your own investment, and no one but your parents or your kids are disappointed. The Olympic Marathon is the highest level of competition, on a global stage, where your country has flown you, given you gear, paid your accommodations, etc. It's a terrible comparison.
Oh, but I do understand the importance of the event. That is my whole point. It is a dream built on blood sweat and tears to compete for your country in the Olympics. I almost got there in skiing in my youth.
Perspective is important though. I ran a 2:43 in Boston injured. Yes, not great but of course nothing like you have described as an effort to get under my skin.
The point was I didn’t have my best run but I ran very close to my potential at the time. On that day it was tendinitis so bad that I was limping around the morning of the race and I had I idea what would happen.
If you take my point she did not know whether she would work herself out of it or not.
In no way in her position would I have bowed out to let someone else run in my place that was behind me at trials. I seriously doubt you would also and there is no way all of the people downvoting me would. No way.
But you realize the cognitive dissonance here, right? You have run 5 marathons injured, inadvisably, but you admit none of them were on the scale of the Olympic Marathon in terms of importance, or (I would argue) level of competition. Yeah, we know. You're a hobby jogger paying $90 to do the Furniture Discounters May Pole Marathon. If you show up injured and limp along for 6 hours, or drop out, it's your own investment, and no one but your parents or your kids are disappointed. The Olympic Marathon is the highest level of competition, on a global stage, where your country has flown you, given you gear, paid your accommodations, etc. It's a terrible comparison.
Oh, but I do understand the importance of the event. That is my whole point. It is a dream built on blood sweat and tears to compete for your country in the Olympics. I almost got there in skiing in my youth.
Perspective is important though. I ran a 2:43 in Boston injured. Yes, not great but of course nothing like you have described as an effort to get under my skin.
The point was I didn’t have my best run but I ran very close to my potential at the time. On that day it was tendinitis so bad that I was limping around the morning of the race and I had I idea what would happen.
If you take my point she did not know whether she would work herself out of it or not.
In no way in her position would I have bowed out to let someone else run in my place that was behind me at trials. I seriously doubt you would also and there is no way all of the people downvoting me would. No way.
You conveniently ignored what I pointed out is major difference here, even considering Boston (which I've run 5 times by qualifying, once AMA with still healing fractures in my chest wall after a traumatic accident, and I knew going in I would finish in over 4 hours, but I wasn't taking a spot from anyone else). As a hobbyist, your own money and your own experience is on the line. The people at Boston didn't come to watch YOU run or ME run; we were running for ourselves.
Anyone who has been an athlete for more than a year knows that tendinitis generally warms up with activity. Whatever she has, it is not THAT. she couldn't walk without pain, and it didn't improve when she ran; in fact, it got progressively worse. The idea that "maybe it would improve overnight" when it had gotten progressively worse over the course of a week is... ridiculous.
I saw Des say online that if we allowed USATF to select the team, then she would be okay with them switching up the team, but since the runner "earns" the spot, then they can choose to do with it what they will. If that is how the pro runners feel, great, but we as spectators can choose to not support the ones who want to line up knowing they cannot run, limp 1K of a 42K race, and call themselves "an Olympian" for the rest of time.
Personally, I am all for redefining what it takes to earn the title of "Olympian," because it is stupidity that we want injured people to do that.
Oh, but I do understand the importance of the event. That is my whole point. It is a dream built on blood sweat and tears to compete for your country in the Olympics. I almost got there in skiing in my youth.
Perspective is important though. I ran a 2:43 in Boston injured. Yes, not great but of course nothing like you have described as an effort to get under my skin.
The point was I didn’t have my best run but I ran very close to my potential at the time. On that day it was tendinitis so bad that I was limping around the morning of the race and I had I idea what would happen.
If you take my point she did not know whether she would work herself out of it or not.
In no way in her position would I have bowed out to let someone else run in my place that was behind me at trials. I seriously doubt you would also and there is no way all of the people downvoting me would. No way.
You conveniently ignored what I pointed out is major difference here, even considering Boston (which I've run 5 times by qualifying, once AMA with still healing fractures in my chest wall after a traumatic accident, and I knew going in I would finish in over 4 hours, but I wasn't taking a spot from anyone else). As a hobbyist, your own money and your own experience is on the line. The people at Boston didn't come to watch YOU run or ME run; we were running for ourselves.
Anyone who has been an athlete for more than a year knows that tendinitis generally warms up with activity. Whatever she has, it is not THAT. she couldn't walk without pain, and it didn't improve when she ran; in fact, it got progressively worse. The idea that "maybe it would improve overnight" when it had gotten progressively worse over the course of a week is... ridiculous.
I saw Des say online that if we allowed USATF to select the team, then she would be okay with them switching up the team, but since the runner "earns" the spot, then they can choose to do with it what they will. If that is how the pro runners feel, great, but we as spectators can choose to not support the ones who want to line up knowing they cannot run, limp 1K of a 42K race, and call themselves "an Olympian" for the rest of time.
Personally, I am all for redefining what it takes to earn the title of "Olympian," because it is stupidity that we want injured people to do that.
You said: "...but I was not taking a spot from anyone else" Who's spot did O'keefe take? She won Olympic Trials more than 3 minutes ahead of McClain in a trials RECORD time!
And you have definitive evidence that she knew she was unable to run the Marathon when she lined up? That's not what she is saying. If you took the time to read her explanation you are implying that she is lying.
I'm sorry but you guys are misguided and very wrong here.
You conveniently ignored what I pointed out is major difference here, even considering Boston (which I've run 5 times by qualifying, once AMA with still healing fractures in my chest wall after a traumatic accident, and I knew going in I would finish in over 4 hours, but I wasn't taking a spot from anyone else). As a hobbyist, your own money and your own experience is on the line. The people at Boston didn't come to watch YOU run or ME run; we were running for ourselves.
Anyone who has been an athlete for more than a year knows that tendinitis generally warms up with activity. Whatever she has, it is not THAT. she couldn't walk without pain, and it didn't improve when she ran; in fact, it got progressively worse. The idea that "maybe it would improve overnight" when it had gotten progressively worse over the course of a week is... ridiculous.
I saw Des say online that if we allowed USATF to select the team, then she would be okay with them switching up the team, but since the runner "earns" the spot, then they can choose to do with it what they will. If that is how the pro runners feel, great, but we as spectators can choose to not support the ones who want to line up knowing they cannot run, limp 1K of a 42K race, and call themselves "an Olympian" for the rest of time.
Personally, I am all for redefining what it takes to earn the title of "Olympian," because it is stupidity that we want injured people to do that.
You said: "...but I was not taking a spot from anyone else" Who's spot did O'keefe take? She won Olympic Trials more than 3 minutes ahead of McClain in a trials RECORD time!
And you have definitive evidence that she knew she was unable to run the Marathon when she lined up? That's not what she is saying. If you took the time to read her explanation you are implying that she is lying.
I'm sorry but you guys are misguided and very wrong here.
You said: "...but I was not taking a spot from anyone else" Who's spot did O'keefe take? She won Olympic Trials more than 3 minutes ahead of McClain in a trials RECORD time!
And you have definitive evidence that she knew she was unable to run the Marathon when she lined up? That's not what she is saying. If you took the time to read her explanation you are implying that she is lying.
I'm sorry but you guys are misguided and very wrong here.
The whole point of the US olympic trials is to select 3 athletes to represent the USA at the olympic games. It might shock you to learn that the USATF actually cares about this representation, which is why they have language and procedures around injury reporting in their guidelines, and a system for implementing alternates in the event that a runner is injured and unable to do a good job representing the country when the games come around. It might also shock you that fans of running, and of their country, feel the same way.
The point of the trials is not to give three people the right to do whatever they want no matter what happens based on how fast they ran months earlier. No one who actually understands and respects the point of the olympics cares if Fiona beat Jess by 3 minutes at the trials when Fiona would have been three minutes behind the woman from Bhutan after the first mile if she had even bothered to run that far.
Again, producing that performance was NOT the point of the trials, and just because no one from USATF wheeled her off the line in a straightjacket doesn't mean it was Fiona's "right" to show up and do that. Far from it. Whatever her motivations were in running, they were not consistent with the entire point of the olympics. This was a selfish act. Time will tell how it's remembered but so far not off to a great start.
It’s quite simple really, marathoning is not a team sport. If you get to the Olympics, you decide what happens next, everyone else be damned. Some of you needed to hear this today. If you are bothered by this fact, you might take up CrossFit instead.
This issue is obviously something people feel passionate about. By the time I get home from work tonight this thread will be 25 pages long and over 500 posts.
The numbers don’t lie. Most people think it was a poor decision and that Fiona did not make this decision alone. Her agent/coach is being paid for this decision and that is wrong.
This makes her look worse! She knew the decision had to be made Friday evening and rested friday and did the test run saturday knowing it was too late so even if it was bad it was too late. That run should have happened Friday before the final decision needed to be made.
I agree. I wonder if saying something straightforward like "I knew I was injured, I knew I would DNF, but I started anyway because I worked so hard to be an Olympian and earned my spot" would come across better. It's still not a great look considering there was a healthy alternate ready to go. But it's better to full own it rather than provide a vague "interview".
I'd be curious to hear from USATF about this. Someone made the decision to call in Jess McClain. But otherwise it sounds like they left things completely up to Fiona and her coaches.
This x1000.
Idk why LRC is supplying us with her agent's response like it's going to be some revelation into this process.
Media/individual personalities have bothered me on this. Citius/Fast Women/Goucher/Des/Tuliamuk/Hall/Martinez/Rogers/etc. It's all the same sort of commentary -- the Olympian title is "earned," the decision is hers, mortals cannot fathom the difficulty of the situation to weigh in, and you might be sexist if you suggest she shouldn't have started.
I don't think the conversation needs to be targeted at her. Going off in her replies isn't going to be helpful & that's generated some sympathy. But it's clear that there should be a better process for replacing an injured runner than letting the runner decide to be an Olympian or not. I don't think that's the actual choice but that's how the runner feels. Who is acting rationally in that situation? None of us. So take it off of the athlete' plate. Should be some sort of team camp weeks before the Olympics. Should have to disclose any injuries. Should have medical personnel make a decision on if you can complete the race. Sponsors should pay you regardless. The message to the agent is that there isn't value in jogging a mile of a marathon. Pay the bonus & do your press in the lead-up. The athlete can still be called an Olympian & you can still plaster that everywhere. I just don't love the "earned" mentality. 3 people made the team out of hundreds. 4th/5th/6th at the Trials are very good runners. The goal is to put out a competitive team. Injuries happen. Remove bias from the problem. Nobody "earned" the right to take away a strong Olympic result from another athlete. Ethiopia did it right & it sounded like the athlete that dropped was Tola's biggest supporter.
I agree. I wonder if saying something straightforward like "I knew I was injured, I knew I would DNF, but I started anyway because I worked so hard to be an Olympian and earned my spot" would come across better. It's still not a great look considering there was a healthy alternate ready to go. But it's better to full own it rather than provide a vague "interview".
I'd be curious to hear from USATF about this. Someone made the decision to call in Jess McClain. But otherwise it sounds like they left things completely up to Fiona and her coaches.
This x1000.
Idk why LRC is supplying us with her agent's response like it's going to be some revelation into this process.
Media/individual personalities have bothered me on this. Citius/Fast Women/Goucher/Des/Tuliamuk/Hall/Martinez/Rogers/etc. It's all the same sort of commentary -- the Olympian title is "earned," the decision is hers, mortals cannot fathom the difficulty of the situation to weigh in, and you might be sexist if you suggest she shouldn't have started.
I don't think the conversation needs to be targeted at her. Going off in her replies isn't going to be helpful & that's generated some sympathy. But it's clear that there should be a better process for replacing an injured runner than letting the runner decide to be an Olympian or not. I don't think that's the actual choice but that's how the runner feels. Who is acting rationally in that situation? None of us. So take it off of the athlete' plate. Should be some sort of team camp weeks before the Olympics. Should have to disclose any injuries. Should have medical personnel make a decision on if you can complete the race. Sponsors should pay you regardless. The message to the agent is that there isn't value in jogging a mile of a marathon. Pay the bonus & do your press in the lead-up. The athlete can still be called an Olympian & you can still plaster that everywhere. I just don't love the "earned" mentality. 3 people made the team out of hundreds. 4th/5th/6th at the Trials are very good runners. The goal is to put out a competitive team. Injuries happen. Remove bias from the problem. Nobody "earned" the right to take away a strong Olympic result from another athlete. Ethiopia did it right & it sounded like the athlete that dropped was Tola's biggest supporter.
I think this is just the most extreme example I have seen of someone just showing up at Olympic track event without any intention to compete. Her limp was so pronounced and she fell off the back so quickly, and she dropped so soon into the race, that people want to know how *anyone* involved with the situation thought this was reasonable. It’s clear she’s getting terrible advice from people on multiple fronts. And I think it pisses off people who love the sport to hear people like Kara & Des say, “no, no, this is fine.” It’s not fine to have someone limp horribly for one mile of the Olympic marathon and then drop out. And I think it is possible to confront this situation without being unduly harsh on the human being at the center of it. Whatever the motivations and incentive structure that led to an athlete doing this at an Olympic marathon need to change. And the people advising this athlete need to take a long look in the mirror.