That wasn't meant to be a link. I was saying: 15:xx and 2:24 at 40 requires rare talent and very much is "special".
Also a bit surprised to see him say in the post above "I don't enjoy running at the best of times". Haven't read most of the thread yet so maybe that's not news, but all this time/effort and not really enjoying it?
I don't think anyone believes that anyone following this approach to a T, even copying every single workout and easy run that spoc did in the last three years would run a 2:24 debut marathon aged 40-41. I do think that anyone this consistent and meticulous about intensity control for two-three years could smash their PBs over any distance, it's just that most people's ceilings are probably lower than spoc's. The Reddit guy going from sub-20 to 2:44 is a good example of this, I don't recall him having a history of sub-elite cycling time trials prior to jumping on this.
I don't think anyone believes that anyone following this approach to a T, even copying every single workout and easy run that spoc did in the last three years would run a 2:24 debut marathon
Hey shut up dude let me dream 😭 Especially if I can figure out his infamous diet, 2:24 will be mine!
What I take from the couple of sirpoc was kind enough to share is this. He's still got mentality of a cyclist. The planning of training load to get from A to B. It's sort of thing as an ex cyclist you used to hear. What guys need to do to be race ready, sessions that need to do with purpose a bit nearer the end.
Then you look at marathon plans. Maybe they focus way to much of the demands of the event, without simply thinking 'how fit can I get in in time for the race?'
You take sirpoc week at 70 miles. 3x workouts, a long run as well and 3x easy runs. But then he can just go again keep going. Take a Piftz 70 week. He is having you do 6*1km, a 2 of medium long runs way faster than sirpoc is doing and then 15 miles MP. This is 5 weeks out. That is lot and the more I read this thread I can't help but think in the following weeks you are going to be really struggling to get any useful training stimuli. I have experience here and then it feels like you can't hit paces and need more recovery than plans give you. In the Piftz plans versus sirpoc, yes sure you are training the specific demands of marathon, but actually, how fit is it making you versus the actual ability to train as much the next week and get fitter and repeat?
My question would be to sirpoc, did you ever have to dial back the paces on workouts? How hard did all feel? Was this easier than you expected to deliver? Sorry English is not my first language I hope you understand. Marathon plan is usually hell from generic plan or even ones coach put me through.
Your English is fine. Better than my understanding of any other language anyway.
No, I never had to dial the paces back in workouts. If you have to do this you probably aren't recovered from previous sessions or your current fitness is all wrong. Knowing both those things are important.
It felt harder than normal around the "special block" time. But nothing outrageous and the rest just felt like any other week. Mentally, it was tough and I don't enjoy running at the best of times. But my body felt pretty good, certainly not terrible or worse than normal.
I was speaking to a couple of guys I know pre London who were almost buried, which I questioned but they assured me that's how you should feel in a marathon build and taper off. But that never sounded right to me. Mentally, yes it should be a challenge but I don't believe any training should over cook you or put you in a hole. Despite this, two separate people with two separate coaches assured me that you dig yourself into the ground and the taper off will make it all OK. Again, to me that just doesn't sound right or normal and looking at training plans suggested for 70 ish miles a week, I feared just about any of them would do this to me. It's more the unbroken MP runs, vo2 work and the unusually fast aerobic/daily or long run paces combined, rather than anything in isolation in some plans I looked at (I say unusually, more just in the sense of what I am used to with my own training).
Maybe I didn't train hard enough. Maybe that is how you should feel, smashed to bits. I have no idea. But I didn't have any of that feeling physically , it was just the mental grind I struggle with, but as I say, I struggle to enjoy running at the best of times. The only exception I will make is the 5x5k workout on tired legs was pretty rough. But that was almost a one off test/confidence boost and still early enough before the race that i knew I could recover from it and the training load would be absorbed. I knew from scaling up tired workouts in HM builds on tired legs that if I could complete it, I was 90% sure I would break 2:25
1. For the 5x5k or 3x5k reps at MP within a long run on your Marathon build, how much rest would you do between, and would it be a slow jog or walk?
2. Did you/do you have to adjust your Sub-T paces for heat, and if so, by how much? (i.e. 15-20s per mile for say, 10x1000m).
3. You mentioned you sometimes struggle with running or wanting to do it at all in the best of times, did you ever take complete rest days to deal with mental burnout? It sounds like physically NSM keeps you injury-free.
1. For the 5x5k or 3x5k reps at MP within a long run on your Marathon build, how much rest would you do between, and would it be a slow jog or walk?
2. Did you/do you have to adjust your Sub-T paces for heat, and if so, by how much? (i.e. 15-20s per mile for say, 10x1000m).
3. You mentioned you sometimes struggle with running or wanting to do it at all in the best of times, did you ever take complete rest days to deal with mental burnout? It sounds like physically NSM keeps you injury-free.
Did you adjust paces for heat in your previous sub-T sessions, or was it cool enough from the fall until now? You’re not jumping straight into a marathon build on this, are you?
As weather in warming up and vacations are near the corner, I have a few questions:
1. Do you run the sub-thresholds in vacation? How do you handle it, e.g. in a remote-ish area? If roads are dangerous, do you keep your intervals short, around the hotel, or switch to some easy days until you return home?
2. With higher temperatures, do you slow down to keep it in the right threshold zone? e.g. my most recent workouts:
22.04: 5 x 4:30/1:15 25-26 degrees, moderately sunny, under the shade of trees around the park ON: 5.08K @ 4:26 (177 HR) OFF: 1.1K @ 5:40 (171 HR) Total: 6.18K @ 4:39 (176 HR)
29.04: 5 x 5:00/1:15 18-19 degrees, very sunny, no shade at all ON: 5.72K @ 4:22 (167 HR) OFF: 0.97K @ 6:28 (158 HR) Total: 6.69K @ 4:40 (165 HR)
Was it the right call to keep it in the 4:20-4:25 range last week for the same muscular/threshold level and let the extra HR only count for my body's extra effort to cool myself? Or should have slowed down a bit to keep the HR under control, too?
For reference, on 5th of April I ran 10K in 42:44 (4:16/km @ 173 HR)
3. Same question regarding heart rate in the context of warm weather but for easy days, I'm trying to keep it under 138 HR (70% of 197 HRmax) but in the last 2 weeks I had days with 25 degrees and was struggling to keep it under 139-141. As soon as I had cooler days, at 16-20 degrees, I had no issues going as low as 131 HR. Should I slow down until I'm fully used to warmer weather or just go by effort?
I guess, in short, I'm asking if I should go with effort, "feeling the kung fu" or trust the numbers and slow down temporarily until my body re-learns how to cool itself under higher temperatures. I'm usually very good at gauging the effort but I'm feeling guilty for going over the limits (like 138 HR cap for easy days).
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
I don't think anyone believes that anyone following this approach to a T, even copying every single workout and easy run that spoc did in the last three years would run a 2:24 debut marathon aged 40-41. I do think that anyone this consistent and meticulous about intensity control for two-three years could smash their PBs over any distance, it's just that most people's ceilings are probably lower than spoc's. The Reddit guy going from sub-20 to 2:44 is a good example of this, I don't recall him having a history of sub-elite cycling time trials prior to jumping on this.
I've seen so much improvement from others, that whilst sirpoc is insane at 41 to drop a 2:24 on debut on a very non optimal day, I don't think he's an exception. That's why this thread keeps coming back. People find it, make crazy progress after a plateau and share information. It's pretty hard to ignore. Of course you will find it just doesn't work for some people, but the strike rate is very high. More so than any other training I've seen.
It's why as someone pointed out the brojos are lucky sirpoc chooses or chose to come here. He's probably their biggest asset lol this thread is often and will probably continue to be pure traffic for the site and often on the front page. There's a reason for that, it's gold
In fact the guy on Reddit in my opinion has had a more remarkable progress. He really was just another non talented guy by his own admission and has made absolutely outrageous progress at 1500 and the marathon. The actual scope of improvement is greater than sirpoc himself. There's been many other guys posting that in my opinion have also made outrageous progress after years of no progress.
The one thing they all seem to have in common with sirpoc is they accept it's going to be a grind, but closer you keep it to straying from his original method , the better the results will be.
Reddit guy needs to chill out a little bit. I think he's evangelizing about the approach too much. He did 3 of his own race reports, which were interesting and are the whole reason I looked into this thread, but he didn't need to make a post about sirpoc's own race result calling the marathon "solved".
Consistency is key and most people’s aerobic bases are underdeveloped.
This method outlines a simple and effective way to address both issues that is sustainable for the long term.
Kudos to Sirpoc.
I wish I had learned the lesson about consistency so much earlier in my life. Trying to get my 16yo to understand that is an enduring frustration.
As an old I have found that trying this approach, for just about the past six weeks, has been most noteworthy for just how much better I feel going into each run. In the past I would feel great, overdo it on a workout, try to fight through the next day, and spend three weeks nursing IT band or plantar fasciitis. We'll see how the races go but my workout paces are steadily improving so far.
Sirpoc makes an appearance in Nick Besters London recap vid. I noticed because holy crap that cadence really is high 😆
The best part about him appearing in a Bester vid is firstly he smoked him and is undoubtedly smarter and the second part is I would imagine he has no idea or would even care who Bester is. Which would really annoy Bester, as sirpoc is this online myth of a character people root for and people just think Bester is a a-hole .
The best part about him appearing in a Bester vid is firstly he smoked him and is undoubtedly smarter and the second part is I would imagine he has no idea or would even care who Bester is. Which would really annoy Bester, as sirpoc is this online myth of a character people root for and people just think Bester is a a-hole .
I thought my cadence was high. The man, the myth, the legend that is sirpoc. I thought we were Beijing trolled hard on the cadence thing. For what it worth, bester really is an a hole. There's enough stuff about him for that to be confirmed