Explosive New York Times article: Mary Cain breaks silence about NOP

Mary has chosen the path of vindictiveness. She is not mentally healthy. When she moves on with her life and realizes her own failings and takes responsibility for her own decisions, only then can she start to become healthy.

Bitterness wrote:

Mary has chosen the path of vindictiveness. She is not mentally healthy. When she moves on with her life and realizes her own failings and takes responsibility for her own decisions, only then can she start to become healthy.

just by looking at her form at age 16 you could tell she would not be a championship racer. that heavy arm swing , no knee lift overstride and boxy build which was just going to get more and more muscular as she aged. everyone who has been through HS running knows that young fast girl who was clearly a long way from a fully mature female body that just tanked once puberty was finished. any coach who takes credit for fast times from girl under the age of 20 is just a con artist.

Bitterness wrote:

Mary has chosen the path of vindictiveness. She is not mentally healthy. When she moves on with her life and realizes her own failings and takes responsibility for her own decisions, only then can she start to become healthy.

You sound like a sociopath. You are scum of the earth. Literal trash.

Bitterness wrote:

Mary has chosen the path of vindictiveness. She is not mentally healthy. When she moves on with her life and realizes her own failings and takes responsibility for her own decisions, only then can she start to become healthy.

No, she chose the path of righteousness and getting the truth out there which in the long run helps others. When you have walked in her shoes, then you can talk and be heard, until then...

Trash post.

Anyway, amy Yoder begley Just spoke out about The abuse there.

I recommend you speak to a therapist as soon as possible. You have very serious bitterness issues.

Hayduke wrote:

Bitterness wrote:

Mary has chosen the path of vindictiveness. She is not mentally healthy. When she moves on with her life and realizes her own failings and takes responsibility for her own decisions, only then can she start to become healthy.

just by looking at her form at age 16 you could tell she would not be a championship racer. that heavy arm swing , no knee lift overstride and boxy build which was just going to get more and more muscular as she aged. everyone who has been through HS running knows that young fast girl who was clearly a long way from a fully mature female body that just tanked once puberty was finished. any coach who takes credit for fast times from girl under the age of 20 is just a con artist.

Current 1500/5000 runners for the US are bigger by women's running standards. Look at Rowbury and Houlihan. I am not sure she couldn't have been good. With a natural progression of mileage and workouts she could have leaned out. Look at all of Bowerman's women. They are all very fit and lean. This is a consequence of years of training and sustaining that into their pro career. I know AlSal has his fierce adherents and defenders, but if you judge a coaches ability and demeanor based on only his/her best pupils that is going to give you a slanted view. Schumacher has quietly gone about his business and has done really well. I have never heard anyone say as terrible things about him and he is known to be just as driven and quirky about things. A lot of washouts at NOP have even ended up with his group and have run well. Maybe that is the most damning evidence of all. I still would like to hear what happened for things to get this bad with NOP, but upon reflection about how Bowerman has coexisted and thrived, we at least know it can be done in a much more positive fashion with just as good or better results. Bowerman women have been the best women's group in the US for a while. I agree with the more moderate voice on here as well. I think to cry abuse without specific corroborated information really diminishes the term. However, Cain's behavior, as soon as that was realized the status quo should have been abandoned. It should have stopped being about running and switched over to hear well-being. I would like to hear Salazar's and NOP response to that and get a timeline to see what really went on.

Can she speak with authority if she hasn't walked in my shoes? I'm older and wiser and have seen things a teen kid like her has not. She needs to get over herself (the fastest girl in America who was ruined). She needs to grow up, take responsibility for her choices and her actions and then move on with her life.

I dont understand some of the contradictions.....

at first she said there was just AS friends and no support and no psychs to talk to.

and than a bit later in the video she says she told the sports psych she was cutting herself and they said they wanted to go to bed....

she also says she was cutting herself...and not to be cruel (I used to self-harm in my teens) I dont see any "cut-marks" in any of her old photos or any videos. I was also a teen girl that was attention seeking and would often blame my extreme type A driven failures on others.

my question is not to totally defend AS....but how much can we really trust her perspective...her story....her accounts...

I want a bigger picture of what was happening overall...someone should ask Jordan Hasay and Treniere Moser etc to comment on the conditions at the time.

when she told Treniere she was cutting did she just say she was tired too?

I agree that everyone knows in running especially when you are a female that if you want to be the best...even high school varsity...that you have to be thin...and everyone knows the sacrifice it takes..its not a secret.

I feel like there is a lot more to this story than just Mary Cains accounts....and I want to know what it is

LOL at alberto being a "father who has always been there for his kids"

In his book he talks about basically ignoring his daughter, and he fed his sons testosterone to benefit Galen Rupp.

Spare me this.

Props to the letsrun staff for making this a black page.

I said it once and I am going to say it again... prison time for Alberto Salazar and any other adults who were aware of this situation if these accusations can be proven in court.

Starvation Mode wrote:

LetsRun community of posters must have missed when she was in the starvation mode. When exactly would have that been? Because nobody on LetsRun commented on her anorexia at the time.

If you look at her bio, Salazar started coaching her in October 2012. She ran great until the middle of 2014. Why did she run great? Because she had crossed that line of taking more out of her body than she was putting in. Her overtraining was producing great times but destroying her body in the process. When she gained weight in an effort to reduce this, her times slowed and she was berated by Salazar. The whole process took about 1.5 years.

As an outsider watching her races over the years, it was obvious she was overtrained. I always thought the big mistake was moving her up and racing 5,000m. My opinion is that the mileage needed to support the 5,000 was what caused the overtraining.

This makes women look weak; whenever life hands you a curve ball, look to parents, perhaps a teacher an ex-boyfriend or coach for why you struck out. Mary achieved tremendous success at a young age in the NOP program and she had nothing but praise for Alberto when things were going well. She left the program still in her teens and didn't progress afterwards, which is somewhat typical for female phenoms, but we are supposed to believe NOP did everything wrong and they are the cause for Mary's misfortunates now. Btw, Cain is not the first and won't be the last athlete to be told about their weight. When you are a paid professional athlete, with coaches, agents and sponsors counting on you, people are concerned about any and everything that effects your performance.

Not everyone is cut out for the rigor of being a world champion, both physically and mentally. I look at Mary in a similar light as Andrew Luck who was ultimately not equipped for the long term grind of the NFL.

YO where did those things go?

This is a misleading account. Firstly there WAS a sports psych. His name is Darren Treasure. Darren is a "sports psych" in that he was not licensed to practice in the state of Oregon. So he was one of Alberto's friends.

You don't see any cut marks so it must be a lie? Oh please.

Hayduke wrote:

Bitterness wrote:

Mary has chosen the path of vindictiveness. She is not mentally healthy. When she moves on with her life and realizes her own failings and takes responsibility for her own decisions, only then can she start to become healthy.

just by looking at her form at age 16 you could tell she would not be a championship racer. that heavy arm swing , no knee lift overstride and boxy build which was just going to get more and more muscular as she aged. everyone who has been through HS running knows that young fast girl who was clearly a long way from a fully mature female body that just tanked once puberty was finished. any coach who takes credit for fast times from girl under the age of 20 is just a con artist.

Is that all you got? That sounds like bro-science and nothing more.

TrackCoach wrote:

This makes women look weak; whenever life hands you a curve ball, look to parents, perhaps a teacher an ex-boyfriend or coach for why you struck out. Mary achieved tremendous success at a young age in the NOP program and she had nothing but praise for Alberto when things were going well. She left the program still in her teens and didn't progress afterwards, which is somewhat typical for female phenoms, but we are supposed to believe NOP did everything wrong and they are the cause for Mary's misfortunates now. Btw, Cain is not the first and won't be the last athlete to be told about their weight. When you are a paid professional athlete, with coaches, agents and sponsors counting on you, people are concerned about any and everything that effects your performance.

Mary acknowledges that weight matters in the video.

"This makes women look weak" LOL this post makes me think you just assume all women are weak anyways.

People keep talking about women's bodies, puberty and development like they have some authority to discuss it. The truth is that the reason "female phonemes" burn out is that we don't understand women's development enough so we just tell them to be thinner. Then we snottily shrug our shoulders and just say they burn out.

You’re spot on. And btw just because you ran well as a teenage high schooler is no guarantee you will keep getting better as an adult. I have seen many national level HS runners who went on to exceptional D1 programs and never improved. Physical burn out before they even hit 20. Happens