Beth Sullivan making headlines at UT

What a totally heartless, cold, calculating B1TCH BAS is. Glad to read about how things are turning out since this all went down last fall, though. I hope BAS gets what she's due. As a parent/ coach, I wouldn't even think about sending her one of my kids. I can't imagine too many other parents would either.

BAS may not have had a huge personal fan club while at PSU but she undeniably built a top program there. It would not surprise me at all if she accomplished the same thing at Tenn.

However, I will say that I found her first recruiting class underwhelming. (Well, her first *announced* class. It's very possible that she's added some kids since the announcement was made last fall.) With the exception of an outstanding thrower, there's not a lot there that I could see with a quick eyeballing:

http://www.utsports.com/sports/c-xctrack/spec-rel/112014aae.html

So if cutting the half-dozen athletes in order to free their scholarships was the grand plan, it didn't particularly seem to pan out--again, at least according to the fall announcement; it'll be interesting to see what the final crop of frosh looks like.

But no doubt she knows how to put a program together. We'll see what the xc teams can accomplish, a year or two from now.

reader of the forums wrote:

http://www.theshadowleague.com/articles/rocky-flop-the-story-of-how-the-tennessee-track-program-discarded-its-top-recruits

and

there is nothing wrote:

That could make me have any respect for BAS ever again. While college sports is definitely a business, there is no reason whatsoever for her to have treated these young ladies in this manner. She should have called them at the beginning of the semester,,,knowing what she was planning to do, and given them an out…even that would have been cold and calculating…she is a rotten, selfish person and I hope her career dies there.

We are going to hype that article next week once Stanford and World Relays are over. We didn't give this story enough publicity last fall mainly because there wasn't a great piece like that to focus on.

In our opininon, it's SHAMEFUL that Alfred Sullivan did this and that any adult at Tennessee or hell the NCAA would stand up for it.

If she wanted to cut scholarships and go 'in another direction', then she should have told them in October but let them be on the team this year. How in God's name is someone supposed to get a scholarship to another school if they can't compete or train for a year?

Everyone is calling to have the coach's head, but guess what, kids, especially top Tenn kids are dreaming of competing for UT and recruits will keep coming.

Also, all the kids who were "let go" still have 4 years of eligibility so they are marketable.

reader of the forums wrote:

http://www.theshadowleague.com/articles/rocky-flop-the-story-of-how-the-tennessee-track-program-discarded-its-top-recruits

This should be a must read for anyone who cares about the integrity of college athletics. Link it to the front page Wejo.

This is a superlong thread but I haven't found within it the precise rule that allows the coach to cancel a scholarship in the middle of a scholarship period without cause. Here's the summary from the NCAA web site:

"Can a coach cancel a student-athlete’s scholarship?

Depending on various circumstances, a school can choose not to renew or cancel a student-athlete’s scholarship*. The school has the choice to reduce or cancel the scholarship at the end of the period of the award. The school could also cancel the scholarship during the period of the award under the following circumstances:

•Student-athlete becomes ineligible

•Student-athlete commits fraud

•Misconduct

•Quits the team for personal reasons

*Note that scholarships outside of the athletics department may be handled differently by the institution."

My general understanding is the award period is for a full academic year. I would thing that once the athlete is a student in good standing, the award generally could not be cancelled during the year, although it could be not renewed at the end of that year. I would think also that the replacement of the coach with a new one would be irrelevant: the scholarship contract is with the university, not with the coach.

Anybody have an insight that can make this consistent with the actions of the Tennessee coach?

Live and learn. From the article "What kind of person would do that?" The answer is a university track coach, an athletic director etc. Just move on.

alanson wrote:

Anybody have an insight that can make this consistent with the actions of the Tennessee coach?

Haven't followed this closely but I have the impression that BAS told the kids their scholarships would not be *renewed* (and that they were off the team). I interpreted this as meaning that they still had the full amount of their stipulated financial aid for that one year.

And I suppose you could make an argument that BAS actually did them a favor by dropping them from the team, in that their four years' eligibility to compete was not impaired...

r6i wrote:

alanson wrote:

Anybody have an insight that can make this consistent with the actions of the Tennessee coach?

And I suppose you could make an argument that BAS actually did them a favor by dropping them from the team, in that their four years' eligibility to compete was not impaired...

Except for that little thing about losing a year of training. Yes, how thoughtful.

So those scholarships were not available for BAS to use that year unless the athletes actually quit school. If they stayed on campus using their scholarships, the money was unavailable to be used by BAS for other athletes.So the whole point of this was to be so nasty to the young women that they would, in effect, violate their contracts (by quitting UT) and thereby "voluntarily" give up their scholarships.Wouldn't deliberately inducing a breach of contract be considered a tort whose damages could be recovered in a civil lawsuit?

Lipstick on a pig wrote:

r6i wrote:

And I suppose you could make an argument that BAS actually did them a favor by dropping them from the team, in that their four years' eligibility to compete was not impaired...

Except for that little thing about losing a year of training. Yes, how thoughtful.

Seems to me that the coach was trying to make the athlete quit so she could potentially reuse the scholarship in the spring. Unethical and heartless are good adjectives as noted above,

Seems like everyone is more upset with the "how" than the "what", which means this has boiled down to just emotion, not facts and logic.

I think giving a 400m IH a full scholarship isn't exactly a judicious use of scholarship money. I guess that shows how flush women's teams are with cash.

Any updates on the situation?

Yeah, sue for what? "emotional distress"- you guys are really reaching. Every case of hurt feelings should not be reason to hire a lawyer.

The dollars and effort spent to sue UT would be best used for... well just about anything.

UT lawyers walk in with:

- no ncaa rules were violated.

- no $$ were taken from the athlete for the year.

- UT acted 100% with the scope of the rules of the athletic scholarship.

The only thing she is guilty of is hurting the girl's feelings.

This is a cautionary tale for EVERY kid signing a letter of intent, but I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to shake down the school for cash with this case.

TNrunnah wrote:

Seems like everyone is more upset with the "how" than the "what", which means this has boiled down to just emotion, not facts and logic.

I think giving a 400m IH a full scholarship isn't exactly a judicious use of scholarship money. I guess that shows how flush women's teams are with cash.

No, people are objecting to the "what" insofar as she threw them off the team and cut off their access to the university's resources. She was clearly trying to pressure the three freshmen into leaving UT so she could use their scholarships. By cutting off their access to varsity training facilities, the three were left with the completely unfair choice of giving up the scholarship for 2014-2015 or losing a year of high level training.

And if "giving a 400m IH a full scholarship isn't exactly a judicious use of scholarship money," then why did BAS also offer her an 80 percent scholarship at Penn State?

You're too into the emotion of this, so let's play reverse.

If a coach cuts a kid for a reason you consider more palatable, then does that coach have to deal with that athlete using the facilities for a year?

The facts are that those kids did not have to give up the scholarship. They had a year of free school. They just were no longer part of the team. They were free to train on their own, contact past coaches, etc..

Your "completely unfair choice" is a fantasy.

"Kids are dreaming of competing for UT," says Crybaby. Yeah, in exactly the same way that cattle dream of becoming hamburger. Anyone who goes anywhere near UT's program after this deserves exactly what they get. Mr.Crybaby sounds like Mr.Alumni, or more accurately, Mr. Moron.

Track teams and X-country are charities , they do not generate revenue, most funding comes through other revenue generating sports.

Every coach has their own dance card and budget, maximizing dollars is critical in the under funded programs that exist today. How do they spend their dollars to field the best teams possible, each coach has a formula. The coach doesn't get to say the program sucks because of the old coach, the are hired to get it right. Parents and athletes need to do a little more due diligence when looking at schools. Dig a little deeper beyond the surface face time and dinners.

This happened to me over 30 years ago. I signed a letter of intent, and in early June (I had a 4:09 mile as a 12th grader to win one of the then three big post season high school races), was told by the coach that the school, one of the best academic schools which gave athletic scholarships, were not honoring my signed letter of intent. This was after turning down numerous other schools. I was poor,a single mother kid, and obviously naive as to how tenuous and risky athletic scholarships were for a young athlete. I am not sure what happened, but I got a call back a few days later saying we made a mistake. I never really figured out what happened, but the best I could discern was that the Chancellor, a powerful, assertive, tough and often abrasive guy (who I ended up respecting enormously if not necessarily liking) stepped in and was very upset at treating a young person poorly. I was a young idiot - and did not realize that going where I was not really wanted was a dumb idea. I stayed. Of course, I could not see sitting out a year at the time, although I certainly could have done so - I had other options if I was willing to wait a year.

The sum of this is that athletic scholarships are simply not a good deal for

serious students. No matter what lip service athletic departments pay to academics, if on athletic scholarship, an athlete is an academic department employee, and even if an athlete manages to obtain good grades, the athletic scholarship makes it really difficult to grab all of the available academic resources out of the school. I tell parents this all the time - they think I am bitter - I am not - I am appreciative of my experience - but look, these are one sided deals, these NCAA scholarships.

The problem that Beth Alford Sullivan has is now a PR one. It is not like Tennessee is the Ivy or a top 20 school. Paying for out of state tuition is not a good value, and her actions make the value proposition in a minor sport less than scintillating.