The Official Men's 1500m Thread

Will the fact that Makhloufi blatantly lied about being injured in the 800 prelim be reviewd at all? Could he have made this situation any more controversial?

I hope there is something done about that.

Oh wait, he had a doctor's note? Oh, well then nevermind.

Hopefully there will be testing for doping and PED and the real winners will credited just like 2008. I will be shocked if the Algerian was clean.

The 800 thing really isn't a story at all. Never should have been DQ'd

He didn't want to run the 800m but he left it too late to pull out. So that was his way of getting out of it. It was dumb but that's all.

All that was needed was a bit of common sense from both sides.

Well. Praper you self to be shocked

London coach wrote:

Well. Praper you self to be shocked

Haha, look at this guy pretending to be some coach with inside information. As if anyone aside from the athlete himself and maybe his coach would know with 100% certainty whether he has doped or not. Nice try, troll.

The Ramzi news didn't come out until April 2009. Are they quicker at testing these days?

I was commenting to my wife before and during the race on the remarkable intuitive racing tactics of Centro, particularly for a young pub. He proceeded to demonstrate that until the last part of the race. He was boxed by Manzano from about 100-60m out and had to slow to get out of it, which likely costed him a medal, and maybe a silver at that.

black armband event wrote:

4) Shunned by his fellow competitors (anyone else notice this after the race?) & isn't fooling the media either (and certainly not fooling Steve Cram)

This, to me, is the most damning. The athletes are always the first to know. There hasn't been another event on the track in which the winner was so openly shunned by the other participants and implicitly accused by the announcers.

2:55

12.6

12.5

14

does not openly point to doping. Coe could have done that. Cram, ovett, hicham, just about any of the great 800/1500m runners could have as well.

This just wasn't a strong field when it came to kicks, and that 12.5/12.5 put a lot of distance on the field.

However, I would think that it is quite possible that he is dirty.

Never weigh into these sort of things... But I had a bad feeling that this guy was going to do exactly what he did. Tear off with 400 to go and make a mockery out of the race. Sad, sad race to watch. Clean runners will never have a chance to run that race, again. I hope they freeze his blood sample.

ok, we all already know the algerian cheated. but what i don't get is how did chepseba or kiplagat not blast that rat at the end?

alright, who sabotaged the kenyans altitude tent?

Irish Times says:

"If Makhloufi looked stunned by the manner of his victory then he wasn’t the only one. This is the man, after all, who this season improved his 800 metres by three seconds, and could only finish fifth at the Diamond League meeting in Monaco just a few weeks before London."

I'm a bit bothered when things like this are used as evidence for doping. Diamond League and Olympic races are completely different beasts. Diamond League tests how well one can follow a pacer and run quickly, Olympics is about surviving multiple rounds and getting your tactics right. Truth is ANYONE with a 3:28 - 3:33 PR generally has a chance to win the Olympics. How many Diamond League races did Manzano win?

Let's not crucify the Algerian before the tests come out.

I can't believe the amount of misinformed nonsense and nationalistic bias I've just read through by some on this thread.

I was lucky enough to be in the Olympic stadium tonight and was really looking forward to the 1500m final. My first reaction was how badly the kenyans ran! My second was that Makhloufi looked very good, perhaps too good.

But when I got home tonight and looked at the splits of the race which I'd also V + from the tv, I have to say that there was little to suggest that he is on peds, accept the fact that he won relatively easily. Analysis of his split times however underline the fact that the rest of the field was pretty weak (in terms of their performances tonight) as far as Olympic finals go.

It's rather sad that some Americans on here (by no means all) feel the need to have their athletes win at all costs. Most countries would be ecstatic to get a silver medal and 4th, rather than stating that the 2 guys ahead must have been cheating.

I'm not saying that Makhloufi is definitely clean, but what he did is not as impressive as what many others, e.g EL G, Lagat, Ngeny, Cacho have done in previous Olympic or World finals. And Bile came from practically nowhere in 87 to win the World title with a last 800 of 1:46.9 in a 3:36 race!! Makhloufi ran his last 800 in 1:50.3, almost 3.5 secs slower. Did everyone shout out "Cheat" when Bile easily beat Cram in 87?

I have the vast majority of 1500 split times from Championship races over the past 40 years to compare with, and there are many with better performances than the Algerian's.

Lets look at Makhloufi's splits in the final: -

43.7, 58.9, 1:43.7 (700m), 1:59.1. 2:41.2 (1100m) 2:54.7, 3:07.1 3:20.0, 3:34.08

Or laps of 58.9, 60.2, 55.6, 39.3 (52.8 for final 400m, NOT 49 as some on here have claimed!!)

Now compare to EL G's 2004 win in almost exactly the same time.

EL G's laps were 60.8, 61.0, 53.4!, 39.0

EL G's last 700 was 1:32.4, Makhloufi's was 1:35.0

last 400 ~ EL G- 52.0, Makhloufi's - 52.8

last 300 ~ EL G - 39.0, Makhloufi's - 39.3

last 200 ~ EL G - 26.3, Makhloufi's - 26.8

last 100 ~ EL G - 13.3, Makhloufi's - 14.0!!

So EL G was faster than Makhloufi over every "last" split in his 3:34 win.

If we take Bile's corresponding splits when winning the World's in 87, in a slightly slower 3:36.8, again we see his closing splits were faster than Makhloufi's:-

Bile ~ last 800 - 1:46.9, 700 - 1:31.6, 400- 51.5, 300- 39.0, 200- 25.8,

100 - 13.1

And Coe in LA 84 in a faster overall time of 3:32.5 was also faster than Makhloufi for most of his closing splits:-

Coe ~ last 800 - 1:49.8, 700 - 1:35.5, 400 - 53.2, 300 - 39.2, 200 - 25.7,

100 - 12.7

The claim from Cram that Makhloufi ran a 25.0 sec 200 section is not quite accurate. He was level with the leader at 1200m, passed in 2:54.7, and his next 2 x 100m sections went 12.4 (3:07.1) and 12.9 (3:20.0). Still a very fast 25.3. However, he then slows down dramatically, to a last 100m of 14.0.

This wasn't because he was "easing of" as some suggest (although he did the last few strides), but because he'd made his effort in the 200m section between 1200 & 1400. He clearly could not sustain that speed in the home straight and it was clear to me watching in the stadium as well as later at home on tv, that his form was going in the straight and his knees were dropping. Those behind him that tried to go with the burst with 300m to go, also slowed in the last 100m

As I've said, I'm not certain that Makhloufi is clean, but he should be given the benefit of the doubt in the meantime. Again, I'm sure that many have cheated before and not got caught, so I'm not naive enough to believe that if he is dirty then the test will come back positive. All I do know is that what he did today statistically was not as impressive or as suspicious as other athletes' performances in the past, who were certainly not crucified quite so openly and quickly as Makhloufi has been today on these message boards.

Merritt, Gatlin, Marion Jones....Jeter & Richardson hanging with Mark Block...BALCO, Bonds, Sosa (no ingles!), McGuire....USA! USA! USA!

black armband event wrote:

1) He's from North Africa, notorious for doping

]

Makhloufi is no El G. Just because Makhloufi came close to something El G did doesn't prove he isn't doping.

I agree people need to consider the guy innocent until proven guilty, but you have to understand skepticism when it comes to someone running so dominantly for the first time ever, and that, for whatever it's worth, his nationality raises questions based on history.

sanchobaile wrote:

Makhloufi is no El G. Just because Makhloufi came close to something El G did doesn't prove he isn't doping.

I agree people need to consider the guy innocent until proven guilty, but you have to understand skepticism when it comes to someone running so dominantly for the first time ever, and that, for whatever it's worth, his nationality raises questions based on history.

^this

if i was him, i would retire before i get caught just like good o el guerrouj

Look Manzano is the guy that should be suspect. Just because he's American, he's not suspect? Manzano had the tenth-fastest personal best out of the 12 runners in the final and got the silver. Why are you all questioning the guy with the 5th fastest pb who got gold, but not the guy with the 10th fastest pb that got silver?