Uconn's 800 program is excellent. I was routinely nipped by your guys at big east and I am convinced that it was because of their preparation. I would always run much faster throughout the season and be beaten in the finals by someone from Uconn. I would ask the coach if he will provide trainning for you. or at least feedback
OldSub4 wrote:
hmmmm
were all the injuries on your right leg? if so you really need to be careful about your form and slow way down at first until you feel like you are using your quads and gluts more (they dont get injured as much....foot injuries are usually from catching your footstrike instead of letting your heel hit and catching the downward force with your quad in my experience). Run 5 out of 7 days alone so you dont get dragged into someone else's pace....or run with someone who is not that fast.
I would just focus on putting together a 60 mile week healthy at first. Then add in quality...you have plenty of time between now and January to sharpen up for a 3-4 week indoor season.
the nerve injury was in my right leg, outside of my calf, the stress fracture was my left foot, 2nd metatarsal. ive been doing drills usually everyday, high knees, to kick out's, to butt-kicks, and then the "every third step rotation of leg one." (not sure what its called)
the nerve injury was in my right leg, outside of my calf, the stress fracture was my left foot, 2nd metatarsal. ive been doing drills usually everyday, high knees, to kick out's, to butt-kicks, and then the "every third step rotation of leg one." (not sure what its called)[/quote]
...
Make certain you are really practicing the hips forward on every step of every run. I had the outside of the calf thing....it goes away with rest as you must have found but the genesis was up in my hip -- basically a sciatic nerve issue (that ends on the outside of your calf). I dont know if it is th same thing but my intuition is that it is close. The stress fracture may have been some compensation?
Start slow and from scratch. Rebuild you form as a strider with more back-end mechanics and you will regain your durability. The power, running economy, lactic acid tolerance and all the things that made you run fast before will graft onto the new form and you will get faster because you can do more of the training.
Best of luck....the work from now until January is boring and repitive...you just need to set you benchmarks of getting the volume up slowly, getting you lifting and drills in, and be patient with the quality.
OldSub4 wrote:
the nerve injury was in my right leg, outside of my calf, the stress fracture was my left foot, 2nd metatarsal. ive been doing drills usually everyday, high knees, to kick out's, to butt-kicks, and then the "every third step rotation of leg one." (not sure what its called)
...
Make certain you are really practicing the hips forward on every step of every run. I had the outside of the calf thing....it goes away with rest as you must have found but the genesis was up in my hip -- basically a sciatic nerve issue (that ends on the outside of your calf). I dont know if it is th same thing but my intuition is that it is close. The stress fracture may have been some compensation?
Start slow and from scratch. Rebuild you form as a strider with more back-end mechanics and you will regain your durability. The power, running economy, lactic acid tolerance and all the things that made you run fast before will graft onto the new form and you will get faster because you can do more of the training.
Best of luck....the work from now until January is boring and repitive...you just need to set you benchmarks of getting the volume up slowly, getting you lifting and drills in, and be patient with the quality.[/quote]
Yep, I,ve had the same calf problem too and it was sciatic nerve related. And its true for me also that focusing on posture helped a lot, getting the hips forward under the trunk by activating your transverse abdominus. This minimises heel striking, and lets you land more forefooted.
OldSub4, I'm sorry I need to clarify what you wrote regarding "catching your footstrike" again. Am I right to interpret this as part of picking our feet up from the ground as quickly as possible, thus minimising ground contact time (and other stuff like overpronation)? This sounds like it could increase leg turnover as well.
the nerve thing was from the sciatic...something never compression...in june/july...stress fracture wasn't found until feb. of 08, month or so after my foot began to hurt.
What drills would you recommend?
foomiler wrote:
Yep, I,ve had the same calf problem too and it was sciatic nerve related. And its true for me also that focusing on posture helped a lot, getting the hips forward under the trunk by activating your transverse abdominus. This minimises heel striking, and lets you land more forefooted.
OldSub4, I'm sorry I need to clarify what you wrote regarding "catching your footstrike" again. Am I right to interpret this as part of picking our feet up from the ground as quickly as possible, thus minimising ground contact time (and other stuff like overpronation)? This sounds like it could increase leg turnover as well.
You do have quicker feet and less ground time with striding, but more about when you foot hits the ground many runners will "grip" with the foot/soleus to take the shock, when you should let the heel hit and resist gravity above your knee in the larger muscles. If you perfect you will be on the ground less time, have quicker turnover, and send all the stress up to your upper legs which can handle the load.
JColeman wrote:
the nerve thing was from the sciatic...something never compression...in june/july...stress fracture wasn't found until feb. of 08, month or so after my foot began to hurt.
What drills would you recommend?
My guess is that the sciatic and foot are all related, and it is about your muscle balance in your hip carriage -- at the core level. Try the following...borrowed from yoga:
face down on the ground resting on your elbows, lift your middle up supported on your toes, elbows and hands (clasped together right under your face.) have your middle body be entirely straight. When I saw somebody do this I thought it was a lower back exercise but it actually activates your ab and psoas muscles...if you are weak they will start to shake toward the end.
then immediately roll over to your left side, balancing on your forearm and the side of your foot...raise up so that you are straight from armpit to ankle, and put your right arm pointing straight up in the air for balance.
immediately switch over to the right side
then another rep facing the ground
start with 15 seconds each phase for a total of 1 minute. try 2 sets...
build up to 30 seconds each phase with 2 sets, but in the middle of the sets work in some abs work on your back like crunches, bicycle rotations and scissors 6 inches of the ground so that you even out as you start getting stronger.
My back and sciatic felt different even after one session of this exercise...it pulls your sacrum (sic) forward and relieves some of the compression on the sciatic nerve. Plus its good for the running form...
so basically do what they call planks?
Yes I think he is refering to planks or bridges.
Some variations:
-Lowering hips almost to the ground then back up to parallel.
-twisting the hips back and forth (left hip towards the ground, right hip towards the ground, keeping parallel)
-scissoring the hips back and forth (left hip towards the upper body, the right hip towards the upper body, hard to describe)
-one leg off the ground and opposite arm off the ground
for side bridges
-lowering/raising hips towards the ground
-raising/lowering upper leg
-twisting the upper body around until the non-supporting arm is below the body (and you are in almost a normal plank position), then untwisting so it is straight up again
me o my wrote:
Uconn's 800 program is excellent. I was routinely nipped by your guys at big east and I am convinced that it was because of their preparation. I would always run much faster throughout the season and be beaten in the finals by someone from Uconn. I would ask the coach if he will provide trainning for you. or at least feedback
I'm afraid uconn fresh is actually quite insane. His name is Geoff, and he is one of the all time greatest trolls on this website. He emerges every few months with a new goal, posts his ridiculous training, and then disappears when it's actually time to race. Last year it was breaking 15 in the 5k, but when the race rolled around he ran one 5:10 mile and dropped out. This despite workouts such as 5x1mile in 4:30-4:45.
He has never in his life run faster than 2:07 in the 800, and unfortunately it's become my task to make sure he doesn't deceive people ever again. Just so no young kids try to copy workouts thinking he's like Oldsub4. He is not. He is an idiot.
thanks
idiot patrol wrote:
I'm afraid uconn fresh is actually quite insane. His name is Geoff, and he is one of the all time greatest trolls on this website. He emerges every few months with a new goal, posts his ridiculous training, and then disappears when it's actually time to race.
Not true, except for the name.
idiot patrol wrote:
Last year it was breaking 15 in the 5k, but when the race rolled around he ran one 5:10 mile and dropped out.
true
idiot patrol wrote:
This despite workouts such as 5x1mile in 4:30-4:45.
complete bs
idiot patrol wrote:
He has never in his life run faster than 2:07 in the 800, and unfortunately it's become my task to make sure he doesn't deceive people ever again. Just so no young kids try to copy workouts thinking he's like Oldsub4. He is not. He is an idiot.
No, I'm nowhere near OldSub4's level. I never claimed to be. But I ran 23/51/2:05/4:48 in high school off of 15-20 mpw and now have a legitimate shot at getting on a D1 track team with a very solid 800m program, mostly because of a large amount of hard training.
And the funny thing is, my training is very similar to what most people have been posting on this thread. It's not like I'm advocating 20 miles a week or 150.
70-80 mpw with 2-3+ tempos, 1-2 hill workouts, drills+sprints, weights for the legs and core. Really not far off at all from what others have posted.
If I run sub 1:50 (that is my goal) that will be taking 15+ seconds off my 800m time in 2 years. If that doesn't show effective training then I don't know what does.
I've a question regarding plyometrics training for everyone.
For an 800m runner, are there any standard prescriptions as to how many ground contacts per session there should be for optimal stimulation, especially after the athlete has become proficient in the exercises?
Another question is how does one proceed to continue plyometric sessions as the season progresses? What kind of adjustments are usually made to accomodate the changing running workout emphases throughout the different phases of training?
Next, when is the optimal time to start cutting out plyometrics training altogether? Can it be maintained in some capacity thro out the pre-comp & comp phases, and even until the peaking phase, or should there be a point where it is terminated totally? I'm not including running drills & dynamic flexibility work here.
can someone elaborate on anthony collotis post on strength traininng,
gpp. is it basically squat, bench, lat pull down,
low reps low sets, long rest, explosive?
no sleds required or anything?>
idiot patrol wrote:
I'm afraid uconn fresh is actually quite insane. His name is Geoff, and he is one of the all time greatest trolls on this website. He emerges every few months with a new goal, posts his ridiculous training, and then disappears when it's actually time to race. Last year it was breaking 15 in the 5k, but when the race rolled around he ran one 5:10 mile and dropped out. This despite workouts such as 5x1mile in 4:30-4:45.
He has never in his life run faster than 2:07 in the 800, and unfortunately it\'s become my task to make sure he doesn't deceive people ever again. Just so no young kids try to copy workouts thinking he's like Oldsub4. He is not. He is an idiot.
He has made no claims to having any real talent, and is just asking questions like the rest of us. Let's not derail this thread, as it is proving to be a wonderful resource for many. I read it every morning.
There have to be some High School coaches on the thread...
I feel fairly comfortable sketching out a training schedule for a 20-27 year old to try and run 1:45, but have little experience sketching out a schedule for a 16 year old trying to break 2:00. My question is, do you simply dial back the volume and times? Or do you cut out more of the base? Even more difficult when you are dealing with a HS athlete who might be able to consistantly train only from March 1 through State meet at the end of May (not even 12 weeks). Would you even periodize?
Also, what does one do about all the racing? It seems like there is a meet every 4 days on some kids schedule. I know this thread is about sub 1:50 training, but a sub 1:50 guy might be trying to go sub 2 as a sophomore....
Any input is appreciated!
All I can really say about plyos is that it progresses:
Low -Bounds, skips, hops
Medium -Box jumps, uphill (bounds,skips, hops), single leg progressions
High -Box jumps multiple responses, lower depth jumps and drops, reactive drills
Shock-This phase should be no longer than 3-4 weeks (includes depth jumps, depth drops, and super high intensity plyos)
As far as how to periodize I would probably set your shock phase to coincide with the end of spp. Once PCP and CP start you do not want plyo's compeating for CNS time. You wouldn't do a hard plyo session before speed work, and the other way around too. Sure you can try but ground contact times will be too long and you will fry your cns. Sprints are actually by nature plyometric so to getting more effecient at that form of plyometric behavior takes prescedence (sp).
150 is easy..try 149
question for wellnow...
Kipketer split 48/53 in his 800m record
El Geurrouj split 55/55.5/42/53.5 in his 1500m record
Who had the more anerobic last lap?
Pmoax9,
Thanks for your reply.
So, are you saying that we can continue plyo sessions up to near peak & peak phases, but to keep the volume low & quality high?
I realise that sprints are plyometric in nature and are more event-specific for 800m. But I've had the experience coaching some 15-16 year old boys (sprints & jumps & 400/800m types)who were not able to run very well if they did running workouts alone. Even after a full blown base phase where strength & plyo sessions were carefully integrated, they seem to run their best when I include some form of jumping even if it is as part of the warm-up before race pace/speed sessions. This is true even up till 2-3 weeks before their peaking phase. This has set me thinking about how best to use plyometrics.
I've read that 1996 Olympic 800m champion Vebjorn Rodal does plyometrics all year round. I wonder if this shows that there is indicative of other benefits/stimulus that jumping can add to an 800m runner's psyche &/or physiology?
Can the multi-lateral & multi-directional aspects of plyometrics lend a certain sense of holism to an athlete's overall training framework, such that the athlete remains challenged & not stale/bored?
Like doing long runs year-round maintains that basic aerobic foundation even during competitive periods, can we see plymetrics as a means of maintaining that sense of dynamic flexibilty/mobility which I see as part of an athlete's base?