50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Hi Guys and Gals! Good job to everyone with their training!My training for Boston is going well! The past 4 weeks I've been at 73, 76, 78, and 83 miles. I'm feeling stronger each week and pace is starting to get better. My new left knee (13 months ago) is still not like my new right knee ( 2.5 years ago) but its getting closer all the time! It took my right knee about a year a half before I didn't think about it anymore. So if my left one works out like that, that will be good for Boston! I'm glad I have 6.5 months before Boston! I haven't been this excited about getting ready for a race since 30 years ago before Boston! Thanks for all of you support and kind words,I really appreciate it! Keep up the super training everyone, have a great day!

Dick :-)

Thanks guys for all the well-wishes. Much appreciated. I'll pass them along to my wife, as well, as she is most affected by the loss.

MG, nice job on those XC races, almost like being in one of those relays. I never look at age-graded times, but I do track my age-grade %'s, which I think do compare you against the history of those in your age-group. If age-grades are soft it is only because someone needs to come along and stiffen them up. Trail-blazers (e.g.-Kathryn Martin or Ed Whitlock) are therefore rewarded disproportionately in this scheme. We may find out 15 years from now that all those great times Ed Whitlock has run are in fact soft (I kinda doubt this last marathon will ever be considered soft, though, 3:15 @ 80? Geez!). We can only know once there is data. I suppose another scheme may be to look at the time progression of age-records and use a derivative method to come up with an asymptote to set an extrapolated 100% rating, but this would seem presumptive. Regardless, its fun to have a handicapping scheme to level the playing field in some venues, just so long as it is recognized for what it is, and isn't the primary award given. If awards are given, they should be based on highest age-grade percentage, times should never be corrected IMHO.

Skuj, I wanted to say that Wednesday workout starting every 2 minutes is one tough set. Those are pretty impressive splits for such little rest. You are definitely setting yourself up to pop a fast one sometime. Even though you abanodoned them, I'll bet that spate of doubles you did has had some positive impact in this regard.

Rtype, glad to hear that your knee is allowing you to do some training. I also found that my knee hurt less when I ran hard (thankfully, I'm pretty much pain-free now.) I think it might be that the fast you go, the less lateral movement/stress there is in the knee; just my sense. I'll be curious to see how this low-volume experiment works out. For me, the main issue would probably be weight management.

NLS! Nice to hear from you! Sorry that you've had to suffer a second setback on top of the stress fracture. Glad that it is allowing you to do some running albeit slow. Hopefully, the recovery goes smoothly and you'll be cutting some fast trails soon. Wonder how it will affect your snowshoeing?

I'm with Bushman (and vic and skuj and others) on welcoming Dick to the thread. I'll really enjoy knowing how the training is going leading up to Boston. From all accounts, sounds very promising, and I share your excitement.

We're under 2 weeks until the NYCM, hope you guys are feeling it and are ready to roll!

Cheers, everyone!

Dick Beardsley wrote:

Hi Guys and Gals! Good job to everyone with their training!My training for Boston is going well! The past 4 weeks I've been at 73, 76, 78, and 83 miles. I'm feeling stronger each week and pace is starting to get better. My new left knee (13 months ago) is still not like my new right knee ( 2.5 years ago) but its getting closer all the time! It took my right knee about a year a half before I didn't think about it anymore. So if my left one works out like that, that will be good for Boston! I'm glad I have 6.5 months before Boston! I haven't been this excited about getting ready for a race since 30 years ago before Boston! Thanks for all of you support and kind words,I really appreciate it! Keep up the super training everyone, have a great day!

Dick :-)

So, it is possible to undergo a knee replacement & then be able to pick up the running again?

Good stuff.

Today short 18 min., had to be somewhere immediately after.

It's good to hear from you, Dick. Congratulations on your return to the sport. Best wishes on your training and recovery, from one still competitive 50+ runner to another. Don't let that well known troll get to you. We're thrilled to have you here and look forward to you chronicling your return to Boston.

Dick Beardsley wrote:

Hi Guys and Gals! Good job to everyone with their training!My training for Boston is going well! The past 4 weeks I've been at 73, 76, 78, and 83 miles. I'm feeling stronger each week and pace is starting to get better. My new left knee (13 months ago) is still not like my new right knee ( 2.5 years ago) but its getting closer all the time! It took my right knee about a year a half before I didn't think about it anymore. So if my left one works out like that, that will be good for Boston! I'm glad I have 6.5 months before Boston! I haven't been this excited about getting ready for a race since 30 years ago before Boston! Thanks for all of you support and kind words,I really appreciate it! Keep up the super training everyone, have a great day!

Dick :-)

Victoria BC, I've got a GREAT doctor here in Austin, Dr. Matt Heinrich! After my first knee replacement he preferred that I didn't run but he knew I would at least give it a try. It was very slow going in the beginning and the rehabbing of the knee was brutal but it was worth the effort to get my full range of motion back! I was in for a check up about a year and a half after the first surgery, he took x-rays and he told me it looked like the day he put it in, he then asked me how much running I had been doing, when I told him 70 miles/week he about fell off his chair! He then said, I'm not going to tell you to keep running, but I'm not going to tell you to stop. That was all the OK I needed! Its now been 13 months since I had my left one replaced and he said I'm good to go. Now saying all of this, It was my decision and I will have to take total responsibility if something happens but to me it is worth the chance! I still love to run and compete as much as I ever have! I'm a "run on the ball of my foot" type runner and he said that helps take away some of the shock that goes into the knee if I was more of a heel striker, he also said because I don't have any extra weight I'm carrying around is also very helpful. He now wants to follow me with x-rays every 6 months and have me be his guinea pig thinking that maybe people can do more on these artificial knees then first thought. I'm more then happy to help in that area as i know there are a lot of older runners that need replacements but have been told they can't run anymore after that. I'm hoping what they find out with mine will help others! Hope your running is going well! Have a great day!

Dick :-)

Hey lucky, thanks for your kind words. Hope you are doing ok during a rough time. I'm planning 15x200m on 1min tonight....maybe just over 20sec rests, a good 3000m "drill" I'd say. I love sessions that are "drills".

Sub 10 3k has become my 2012 focus. I looked at what I need to do for sub 5 mile and the 3k/5k focus just suits me more. I hope to race 6x next year...3x3k track, a 5k track, and 2x5k road....or maybe even 3x5k road.

So good to see Dick here.

Dick, I must say that this all is really encouraging stuff. Sounds like things are going as well as you could have imagined, and I wish you continued success going forward. Hopefully, you'll be able to enjoy running and racing for a long, long time. I'm forwarding your message to my mother as she is nervously awaiting double knee replacement surgery this coming January. She's in her late 70's and is not a runner, but wants to get back to the healthier active lifestyle that she enjoyed up until her knees gave way a few years back. This note may reduce some of the anxiety she is feeling about undergoing the procedure. She'll be in the care of the University of Wisconsin medical staff.

All the best.

dick, i'd also like to welcome you to the forum and express my enthusiasm for the opportunity to follow your progress as you gear up your now-bionic body for boston.

L2B, my mother-in-law had both knees replaced simultaneously three years ago, and is glad she did, saying that she likely wouldn't have done the second after the painful experience of the first! so kudos to you for following number 1 with number 2, dick. my husband and i were visiting them when she came home from rehab 2.5 weeks post-surgery, and she was able to make it up and down the stairs on her own (albeit slowly) even that first day home, and through diligent rehab was feeling really good within just a few weeks more. what struck me was seeing her for the first time without bowed legs. i hope your mom has as positive an outcome. my stepmother, alternatively, who had one knee done, and by a more prominent surgeon, had a much less successful outcome: lots of pain and stiffness for a full year, but is finally moving well again. paradoxically, of the two maternal figures, my stepmother was the consistent, aggressive walker, while my mother-in-law is rather sedentary. from this pair of anecdotes, i think the immediate post-op rehab regimen makes a huge difference in how the recovery progresses.

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Week 23

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Greetings 50+ers. Autumn weather is in full force (downright wintery for you all in the northeast....what's up with that?)

Managed 51 miles on 6 days this week. Daily mileages were 5.5,8,10,8,6.5,0,13. One workout on Wednesday that included 5x800 with 300m slow jog between. Times were all between 2:40 and 2:45...probably still too fast, but felt better than last week. Didn't run Friday, as the weather was awful (prelude to what you all got out east), and the weathermen had said it would get better as the day went on, so I held off. Never got better, so I just decided to get a long run in Saturday. First 10+ mile run since early June. It was an out and back, where I ran the second half 4-minutes faster than the first (high 7's out, low 7's back). Felt pretty good through 10, but the hip started tightening up for the last three. Knee felt great!

NLS, thanks for sharing the additional experiences regarding knee replacement. I forwarded those notes on to my mom, as well.

Topic: Weight and weight management. Not my strong suit, so looking for advice. We've talked about this before, but I'm just a little surprised that I haven't dropped any weight since I upped my mileage again after the lay-off. I don't feel like I'm eating any more (although it is probably too much). But before, when I've run in the 50mpw range, my weight has dropped a fair amount regardless of what I eat. So I'm curious how much you all will allow your weight to fluctuate. Here's me: last year's race weight was down to about 156 lbs, but realistically, I should optimally be down around 146-148. I'm currently at 165, exhibiting all the wreckage of my past...and the times are showing it. I'm probably OK with it for now, but certainly by spring, I'd like to be back where I ought to be.

OK, enough of my rambling. Hope everyone is having a great week. Looking forward to hearing what you all have been up to. Those running NYCM, best of luck next Sunday; race hard and make it a memorable experience!

Low mileage for me (3 - 4 miles 5x a week) this week as will probably be indefinitely...due to my unstable left foot/ankle...which still permits me to run just enough for fitness & enjoyment..well not quite *enjoyment as, yesterday I finished with a burst of speed which overtaxed my foot. Sore all rest of day, & this AM while doing paper deliveries. But finished a much slower 32 1/2 min. run and relieved to notice foot feeling better...for running on it would U believe...I thought I was pushing my luck this AM!!

*I would like to be running a min. per mile faster, 9 - 9.5 min . per mile, I'm getting over taken by too many weekend runners with their IPads on...not that this should matter a hell of a lot...

Victoria, B.C., Canada, Runner wrote:

*I would like to be running a min. per mile faster, 9 - 9.5 min . per mile, I'm getting over taken by too many weekend runners with their IPads on...not that this should matter a hell of a lot...

(should read)

I would like to be able to run a min. per mile faster THAN 9 - 9.5 min. per mile

Hi everyone! Thanks all for the well wishes with my artificial knees, I really appreciate it! There is no doubt the rehabbing is the most important ( and most brutal) part of the whole ordeal! Those first 6-8 weeks working on getting your range of motion back are tough but please believe me when I say it's worth every painful ounce of energy you put into it! I wish your Mother in-law all the best! I had a very good week of training! I hit 80 miles this week and today did a 17 miler ( longest one yet with my new knees ) they felt great during and after! I can't tell you how much that excites me! Hope you all have a super week of training everyone! :-)

Sorry Lucky2B, I meant all the best to your Mom! :-)

Wow! 80 mpw on artificial knees. I am quite impressed, Dick. I've got a pair of healthy knees - well, there's some occasional clicking, but no discomfort or loss of range - but I'm lucky to get to 20 mpw. Maybe that's why I still have my first knees! That and the "relaxed" pace that I typically find myself at. Let's just say that Vic BC would have no problem passing me. I think I've got a few more years on me than most here, but I'm not looking for excuses. Anyway it is inspiring and educational to read about Dick and many of the others here. Keep it up!

40 miles this week. It's the first time back above 30mpw in a month. I had a decent XC race yesterday and my heel feels pretty good today after an easy 5 miler with my son. I think I now just need to get in some intelligent training the next two weeks until our XC championship.

My week started crap and then I gradually felt better....still fighting a chest infection methinks, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

M, 30min easy.

T, 40min easy.

W, 15min jog + 4 strides + 3x1000m starting every 5min + 12:30 jog, 3:42, 3:41 and 3:37 left me gasping.

T, 40min easy...but signs of life.

F, 45min easy, with a good gallop going on.

S, no running.

S, 16min jog + 4 strides + 3k tempo in 11:03 + 8min jog, shockingly good feeling with cleared lungs and great mechanics...same pace as Wednesday!! This feels like a starting point. On the next many Sundays I'm going to enjoy 3k to 10k tempos, accepting whatever the pace of the day is, instead of fighting for a pace. This has been a long lesson in my case. :)

(Copied, ready for reposting if required.)

Impressive 5x800m L2B. As for weight, WHAT do you eat? I think the older we get the less we can get away with wrt bad foods...not saying you eat bad food, but I'm curious to know what the general quality of intake is given what you have told us.

I am grateful for another pain-free week of running. I’ve been tempted to tease the miles up from the current 15 but I’ve tried to listen to my body and do what feels best. Right now what feels best is to increase the pace, not the miles. So this is week three of speeding it all up, every step. It’s an interesting experiment: if you were told you could only run 15 or 20 miles a week and you could run it any way you wish: what would you do? Since I have moved 3 of my 5 days of running to my lunch period this has forced me to be efficient with time and keep the pace up. I’ve had 2 track sessions that are fair but not great. But progress is being made. I respond well to the classic 10 X 440 workout but I’m not there yet on pace or reps. This remains an experiment.

On weight: Running more miles does not drop my weight one iota. I struggle with it. I’m 5’8 and about 153. It’s simple math that if I dropped 10 pounds my race times would drop. But that 10 pounds seems to weigh a thousand. I do find that protein shakes help kill my hunger but more than anything I know that if I have a race coming up I’ll “be good” at least 3 or 4 days before that race to drop a few pounds.

I would like to thank Mr. Beardsley for pushing the boundaries of what we can do; or more importantly, breaking right though, against the “conventional wisdom” of most Orthopods. They sure do seem to be telling us what we can’t do more than what we can.

Remembering the lyrics of an old Simon and Garfunkel song here..."why am I soft in the middle, when the rest of my life is so hard"

The weight battle isn't going well here. From a BMI perspective, I weighed 120#'s and stood 5'8" back in the 80's. The current Bushman tips the scales at 140# and is only 5'6" tall. Relative to my non running 60 YO peers that may be OK. For those of us still trying to get from point 'A" to point "B" under our own power "ASAP", there's lots of room for improvement.Suffice it to say, portion control is not a strong suit. As a footnote I will mention that all infrastructure is original issue.

The past week running was the best I've managed in 15 months.

Pace was all 9-9:30. M@4mi.T@3mi.W@6mi.T@4mi. Biked 15 on Friday. The dog and I went for a 2mi. trot on Sat.

Took part in a 10 mile trail run in Green Bay today. The first 5 miles floated by around 7:40 pace, then the monkey climbed aboard. The fade was pretty huge, but I managed to get home in just over 83 minutes. Yeah, it was an age group win, but with the decided lack of a 60-69 field that wasn't relevant. What was relevant was getting trounced by my Bro-in-law by over 5 mins. This is a war of attrition;He came to the sport 6 years ago, and at 48 he's still improving, (and trying not to gloat too much). The facet of a familial rivalry keeps it interesting. Daughter #1 and the Bride tagged along, both running the 5k event.

On Thursday's run I was homeward bound when about 200 yards from our driveway, I was startled by a mature Timber Wolf loping from the ditch to cross the road in front of me. The canine was relaxed and flowing. Melting into the high grass and goldenrod, he headed north. From my vantage point of approx.25 yds. away he evidenced no sign of concern at the proximity of a human.

NYCM bound folks!! All the best!!!

Thanks to all thread contributors,esp. lucKY2B and Dick B. for their leadership and continued inspiration.